Bards need a buff

[Leon_Stormrage]

An SE hammer is approaching fast D:

[Grimsins]

[Akesis]

LOLWUT
WE CAN SKIP A DREAD, BUT LET'S CONTROL OUR TP !!!

Do you want some "real" math ?
-Every 18s you are using your 2 dots : 2*80 tp. It will be every 17.5s. 2 out of 7 GCD's are these dots.
-Every 20s you are using Straight Shot : 70 TP. 1 out of 8 GCD is this buff.
-When the dots are up and the buff "Straight Shot" is up, you're using Heavy Shot : 60TP.
Let's imagine that you are unlucky with the RNG and never get the critical "Straight Shot".

With ZERO SKS :
56 GCD : 16 skills at 80TP, 7 skills at 70TP and 33 skills at 60TP. Total : 3750TP -> 67TP per GCD.
Every GCD, we're getting 50 TP and let's add invigorate : 400TP every 120s -> 8.33TP every GCD. Total : 58.33 TP recovered every GCD.
Net loss : 8.66TP every GCD. We are out of TP after 116 GCD, i.e 289s.

Well, a BRD could "manage his TP" by not using his dots Yeah, I'm sure Bloodletter isn't a big part of our DPS
And by the way, Paeon is 42.8% more TP restored per GCD. I don't know how you are doing some "math", but in a perfect situation, 42.8% more TP = 42.8% more DPS.

"real math"? I am very confused by this statement...

AP gives 30 TP every 5 seconds. So, it will be 10 or more seconds per ability that TP users gain access to that they wouldn't have regen by themselves (the avg ability is about 80 TP, yes some cost less). Depending on how much MP you have, you should be able to keep any song up for about 60secs (full MP bar - 0 MP). It takes just over 150sec to regen your MP bar from 0. As a side note, I rarely sing myself much below 1k MP until late in the fight (there are times and phases that I go oom). This way I always have a buffer should someone die or poop hit the fan until we have the fight down to an art. I normally only sing for a max of 30 seconds at the cost of 75 seconds to regen while learning.

If you use those numbers: 30 secs of singing = 3 abilities(at most) that they gain access to and it will be another 75 seconds before you can sing again. This is the part where AP is a major waste of your MP and it kills your raid wide dps. If they are close enough on TP that 3 abilities make a difference, they are close enough to learn to sustain. If they are so TP starved that they are doing nothing for the bulk of the fight... They really need to learn to play their job better. So as you would say using "real" math, people need to learn to conserve their tp so the BRD can be free to sing Foe. AP also decreases the BRD's dps while Foe does not. Foe should be the only song that is played unless someone is dead. Go test for yourself, AP is a waste of MP. If you are saying that we as BRD's need AP, I question your rotation. Just because you CAN use an ability, doesn't mean that you SHOULD use that ability. If you know that you run out of TP at the 3-4 min mark and the fight is going to be 6 mins. You should adjust your rotation accordingly. Singing AP isn't worth the DPS loss instead of "tweaking" your rotation to be able to sustain.


To those who keep saying Brd is a hybrid class within the DD jobs. There are 3 roles TANK, HEAL, DD. No sub jobs, no Hybrid jobs. 3 roles. Sure, some jobs do some things better then others. I am not saying nor have I ever stated that we need to be on the top of any dps list. I am merely stating that we are too far below the rest of the jobs. Sure some fights will be better for some jobs rather then others and BRD has "no bad fight". However, in MAX gear. At near MAX play there is too big of a gap between DD roles.

As for adding and subtracting dps from other jobs to "give it to another" because they were buffing them is silly. A job's numbers are their numbers. Do we subtract 10% of a MNK's damage because he buffs himself?

[Exstal]

You have a very good ability to talk on airs.

Why do you care so much about the DPS meter? If numbers are low, then replace Bard with a different class. OH WAIT.

[Sleigh]

As for adding and subtracting dps from other jobs to "give it to another" because they were buffing them is silly. A job's numbers are their numbers. Do we subtract 10% of a MNK's damage because he buffs himself?

It's needed to look at the bigger picture, otherwise MNK would always outclass DRG, BRD would never be brought to farm content, and every comp would be MNKs and casters. A job's personal numbers are only one part of how much damage they contributed by being brought.

Also if a MNK buffs himself, he's giving that buff, which means it is his contribution. So no, you would not subtract 10% of a MNK's damage, that makes no sense. If you would bring two MNKs then yes you can subtract the ~10% one MNK gained as a bonus and give it to the other MNK if you want to look at what it contributes.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Sure some fights will be better for some jobs rather then others and BRD has "no bad fight". However, in MAX gear. At near MAX play there is too big of a gap between DD roles.

You've been going on and on about MAX gear and MAX play or MAX whatever. But exactly what does it mean to participate in MAX play? Dummies? Name one endgame encounter that isn't T8 that meets the following conditions:

Black mages don't have to move
Summoners don't get enkindle duds and doesn't run out of MP
Monks never lose their stacks and can reach the flank and back whenever and doesn't ever have to leave the target's side
Dragoons can use their jumps whenever without the risk of a derp-death and can reach the flank and back whenever and doesn't ever have to leave the target's side

As it is now, this topic is strangely resembles a sweet 16 episode where the birthday girl cries over getting a mercedes over a BMW

[Rex]

Bards are indeed a ranged physical DPS role, but there is definitely no question that they have support abilities. There's just no "support" classification.

Just like how Scholar is a very supportive class as Eos gives regen effects and Selene gives speed buffs, but is only classified as a healer.

And Warrior...though classified as a tank, can deal decent damage with Defiance turned off.

[Akesis]

You've been going on and on about MAX gear and MAX play or MAX whatever. But exactly what does it mean to participate in MAX play? Dummies? Name one endgame encounter that isn't T8 that meets the following conditions:

Black mages don't have to move
Summoners don't get enkindle duds and doesn't run out of MP
Monks never lose their stacks and can reach the flank and back whenever and doesn't ever have to leave the target's side
Dragoons can use their jumps whenever without the risk of a derp-death and can reach the flank and back whenever and doesn't ever have to leave the target's side

As it is now, this topic is strangely resembles a sweet 16 episode where the birthday girl cries over getting a mercedes over a BMW

I mean a group of people who all know how to play their jobs with a high level of consistency. A group of people who are in BIS or +/- a piece of gear or two. A full group of DD who are 400+ dps on every turn. Every turn the BRD is consistently 30+ dps lower then the next lowest dps. If you would like to say that the BRD needs to work on his rotation more... 400+ dps is as close to perfect as you are going to get.

[Alcyon1]

AP gives 30 TP every 5 seconds.

This is 30TP every 3 seconds. Wow, such BRD. So it will be one more action every 6s.
At 0 TP, you can do one action every 3s and stay at 0TP. With Paeon, you can do one action every 2.5s (+20% DPS) and regen your TP by 15 every 3s. Let's take a example : a Bard, with 60 TP left, spamming "Straight Shot" during 60s.
Without Paeon, he will attack 20 times (3s between attacks) and after this minute is still at 0TP.
He starts by casting Paeon (3s) and keeps it during 6 ticks (18s).
0-3s : no attack.
3-20.5s : 7 attacks with -20%. He got 60+6*90 = 600TP and used 420. He's now at 180 TP.
20.5-21s : he removes paeon during the GCD.
21-58.5s : he attacks 15 times and has 0TP after his last attack.
Total : 7*0.8+15 = 20.6 attacks (20 attacks at 80% potency + 5 attacks at full potency). This bard is doing more DPS.

Next time you want to talk about "math", don't try to fool people with false informations.

[Akesis]

random math.

I want your AP. It is 5 seconds for every BRD in my FC.