Bards need a buff

[Ricdeau]

where did I say I wanted people punished? I'll wait. I'm simply pointing out the fact that you guys are showing off your 3rd party parses which SE doesn't like ON THE FORUMS .

Happens quite frequently to be honest, and typically unless you're offending someone that reports your post nothing will happen.

[Pavise]

where did I say I wanted people punished? I'll wait. I'm simply pointing out the fact that you guys are showing off your 3rd party parses which SE doesn't like ON THE FORUMS .

Anyone who even gives two hoots about endgame would be using a parser to log the fights and their groups progress and to also easily analyse what was the cause of deaths, wipes and if raid members where targeting and damaging the right mobs.

SE has gotta be thick to think such a behavior that happens in EVERY endgame progression guild on every other mmo wouldn't be present here as well.

[Eissels]

I actually think BRD is more fun than MNK, so that makes 3 of those cons totally subjective. :P

[Defteros]

I actually like the AF on my male character ;_;

[Alcyon1]

1) Paeon returns 30 tp every 5 seconds. With some math, it takes 30 seconds for your melee to gain access to 2 abilities that they would have had to wait longer to gain access to. It is roughly a 2-5 dps increase to the melee if it is sang multiple times in a fight. Foe will increase the raid's damage buy a lot more then that. Unless someone has died, Foe has priority. Your melee needs to learn how to control their TP.

LOLWUT
WE CAN SKIP A DREAD, BUT LET'S CONTROL OUR TP !!!

Do you want some "real" math ?
-Every 18s you are using your 2 dots : 2*80 tp. It will be every 17.5s. 2 out of 7 GCD's are these dots.
-Every 20s you are using Straight Shot : 70 TP. 1 out of 8 GCD is this buff.
-When the dots are up and the buff "Straight Shot" is up, you're using Heavy Shot : 60TP.
Let's imagine that you are unlucky with the RNG and never get the critical "Straight Shot".

With ZERO SKS :
56 GCD : 16 skills at 80TP, 7 skills at 70TP and 33 skills at 60TP. Total : 3750TP -> 67TP per GCD.
Every GCD, we're getting 50 TP and let's add invigorate : 400TP every 120s -> 8.33TP every GCD. Total : 58.33 TP recovered every GCD.
Net loss : 8.66TP every GCD. We are out of TP after 116 GCD, i.e 289s.

Well, a BRD could "manage his TP" by not using his dots Yeah, I'm sure Bloodletter isn't a big part of our DPS
And by the way, Paeon is 42.8% more TP restored per GCD. I don't know how you are doing some "math", but in a perfect situation, 42.8% more TP = 42.8% more DPS.

[Akesis]

LOLWUT
WE CAN SKIP A DREAD, BUT LET'S CONTROL OUR TP !!!

Do you want some "real" math ?
-Every 18s you are using your 2 dots : 2*80 tp. It will be every 17.5s. 2 out of 7 GCD's are these dots.
-Every 20s you are using Straight Shot : 70 TP. 1 out of 8 GCD is this buff.
-When the dots are up and the buff "Straight Shot" is up, you're using Heavy Shot : 60TP.
Let's imagine that you are unlucky with the RNG and never get the critical "Straight Shot".

With ZERO SKS :
56 GCD : 16 skills at 80TP, 7 skills at 70TP and 33 skills at 60TP. Total : 3750TP -> 67TP per GCD.
Every GCD, we're getting 50 TP and let's add invigorate : 400TP every 120s -> 8.33TP every GCD. Total : 58.33 TP recovered every GCD.
Net loss : 8.66TP every GCD. We are out of TP after 116 GCD, i.e 289s.

Well, a BRD could "manage his TP" by not using his dots Yeah, I'm sure Bloodletter isn't a big part of our DPS
And by the way, Paeon is 42.8% more TP restored per GCD. I don't know how you are doing some "math", but in a perfect situation, 42.8% more TP = 42.8% more DPS.

"real math"? I am very confused by this statement...

AP gives 30 TP every 5 seconds. So, it will be 10 or more seconds per ability that TP users gain access to that they wouldn't have regen by themselves (the avg ability is about 80 TP, yes some cost less). Depending on how much MP you have, you should be able to keep any song up for about 60secs (full MP bar - 0 MP). It takes just over 150sec to regen your MP bar from 0. As a side note, I rarely sing myself much below 1k MP until late in the fight (there are times and phases that I go oom). This way I always have a buffer should someone die or poop hit the fan until we have the fight down to an art. I normally only sing for a max of 30 seconds at the cost of 75 seconds to regen while learning.

If you use those numbers: 30 secs of singing = 3 abilities(at most) that they gain access to and it will be another 75 seconds before you can sing again. This is the part where AP is a major waste of your MP and it kills your raid wide dps. If they are close enough on TP that 3 abilities make a difference, they are close enough to learn to sustain. If they are so TP starved that they are doing nothing for the bulk of the fight... They really need to learn to play their job better. So as you would say using "real" math, people need to learn to conserve their tp so the BRD can be free to sing Foe. AP also decreases the BRD's dps while Foe does not. Foe should be the only song that is played unless someone is dead. Go test for yourself, AP is a waste of MP. If you are saying that we as BRD's need AP, I question your rotation. Just because you CAN use an ability, doesn't mean that you SHOULD use that ability. If you know that you run out of TP at the 3-4 min mark and the fight is going to be 6 mins. You should adjust your rotation accordingly. Singing AP isn't worth the DPS loss instead of "tweaking" your rotation to be able to sustain.


To those who keep saying Brd is a hybrid class within the DD jobs. There are 3 roles TANK, HEAL, DD. No sub jobs, no Hybrid jobs. 3 roles. Sure, some jobs do some things better then others. I am not saying nor have I ever stated that we need to be on the top of any dps list. I am merely stating that we are too far below the rest of the jobs. Sure some fights will be better for some jobs rather then others and BRD has "no bad fight". However, in MAX gear. At near MAX play there is too big of a gap between DD roles.

As for adding and subtracting dps from other jobs to "give it to another" because they were buffing them is silly. A job's numbers are their numbers. Do we subtract 10% of a MNK's damage because he buffs himself?

[Sleigh]

As for adding and subtracting dps from other jobs to "give it to another" because they were buffing them is silly. A job's numbers are their numbers. Do we subtract 10% of a MNK's damage because he buffs himself?

It's needed to look at the bigger picture, otherwise MNK would always outclass DRG, BRD would never be brought to farm content, and every comp would be MNKs and casters. A job's personal numbers are only one part of how much damage they contributed by being brought.

Also if a MNK buffs himself, he's giving that buff, which means it is his contribution. So no, you would not subtract 10% of a MNK's damage, that makes no sense. If you would bring two MNKs then yes you can subtract the ~10% one MNK gained as a bonus and give it to the other MNK if you want to look at what it contributes.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Sure some fights will be better for some jobs rather then others and BRD has "no bad fight". However, in MAX gear. At near MAX play there is too big of a gap between DD roles.

You've been going on and on about MAX gear and MAX play or MAX whatever. But exactly what does it mean to participate in MAX play? Dummies? Name one endgame encounter that isn't T8 that meets the following conditions:

Black mages don't have to move
Summoners don't get enkindle duds and doesn't run out of MP
Monks never lose their stacks and can reach the flank and back whenever and doesn't ever have to leave the target's side
Dragoons can use their jumps whenever without the risk of a derp-death and can reach the flank and back whenever and doesn't ever have to leave the target's side

As it is now, this topic is strangely resembles a sweet 16 episode where the birthday girl cries over getting a mercedes over a BMW

[Akesis]

You've been going on and on about MAX gear and MAX play or MAX whatever. But exactly what does it mean to participate in MAX play? Dummies? Name one endgame encounter that isn't T8 that meets the following conditions:

Black mages don't have to move
Summoners don't get enkindle duds and doesn't run out of MP
Monks never lose their stacks and can reach the flank and back whenever and doesn't ever have to leave the target's side
Dragoons can use their jumps whenever without the risk of a derp-death and can reach the flank and back whenever and doesn't ever have to leave the target's side

As it is now, this topic is strangely resembles a sweet 16 episode where the birthday girl cries over getting a mercedes over a BMW

I mean a group of people who all know how to play their jobs with a high level of consistency. A group of people who are in BIS or +/- a piece of gear or two. A full group of DD who are 400+ dps on every turn. Every turn the BRD is consistently 30+ dps lower then the next lowest dps. If you would like to say that the BRD needs to work on his rotation more... 400+ dps is as close to perfect as you are going to get.

[Pyreflye]

If you want the highest single target DPS, play MNK instead.
If you want AoE, play BLM

The idea that every single class must put out equal DPS is ridiculous.

Bards can still put out respectable DPS.