Non-consenting SR ruins dungeon runs

[CheshirePuss]

Title pretty much explains the point of my thread, or at least to outfront express my opinion on the matter first-off. Why does no one ever bother to ask "Hey, wanna sr?" or "Mind if we SR?". I rarely ever see a tank that won't completely ignore the complaints of their party members, just because they can't stand to be in a dungeon for a minute longer than they have to.

When they are butthurt enough to even report a party member for harassment for that person wanting to get a chest, it's going a bit too far.

So, what are your guys' take on SR runs? Should we be forced to bend over and take the assumption that SR's are the way of dungeoning now?

[Eisengrim]

Reporting people for wanting to get a chest is going a bit too far, but I don't see a problem with the people that want to do several groups of monsters at once. It doesn't just speed things up, but as most dungeons are ilvl55 or so, it raises the level of challenge to something closer to what most people are actually geared to handle.

There definitely are a lot of people though that want to finish a dungeon as fast as possible though, because a good number of people aren't in the dungeon for fun, but they're there for the chore that is weekly tomes and roulettes.

[MarVell]

It depends on the dungeon I guess. For example Brayflox Hard Mode is for most players by default a speed-run dungeon, they expect to go there and finish it fast.

I have no problems with speed runs as long as they are reasonable and reflect the ilevel of the team. I speed run Brayflox as both a Paladin and White Mage. If I am a PLD I will check the equipment of the healer to see how fast they can cope with because the main pressure on speed runs is on the healers.

It does make me laugh when I play as WHM and see clueless tanks try to pull more than they can handle and then blame the healer for not healing quickly enough (as if White Mages have an infinite number of Benedictions available...).

So, yes, I like speed runs but they need some common sense to work otherwise the party ends up wiping on multiple occasions and spends more time in the dungeon that they would have if they did a normal run!

[Donjo]

Yup, the notion of "doing this dungeon quickly" is, by itself, not bad.

The problems begin occurring in any of the following situations, and probably more.

1. The Tank decides to mass pull without telling anybody.
2. A DPS/Healer takes it upon themselves, without warning, to pull extra mobs to the Tank just to "speed things up".
3. The Healer holds the party hostage unless they run it in a certain way.
4. A speedrun is agreed upon(ie. a majority of party members agree) without a DPS combo that can handle the largest pulls effectively.
5. A speedrun is agreed upon without looking at the Healer and seeing that they have an i55 weapon.
6. A speedrun is agreed upon with any number of new people in the dungeon.

While kicking can solve some, but not all, of these issues, the clear conclusion is that speedrunning should be something that the entire party agrees upon. Not simply a majority; the entire party.

As a tank, here's how I usually do things:

Low Level Dungeons

1. One group at a time, always. Level Sync largely disallows what I like to call "being dumb".
2. At the location of the first optional chest, ask if people want to go for it. If the consensus is no, skip all of them. If there's just one or zero Level 50 characters in with me, do a full clear without asking so the other members get their EXP.
3. If I'm currently leveling the Tank I don't have at 50(MRD), then I go out of my way to kill a few extra monsters, but usually not a full clear unless the second half of point 2 is satisfied.

Brayflox Specifically

1. Start the pulls off smaller than people generally want. If people complain "nicely", make them bigger. If people complain "antagonistically", stay static. If people really start attacking me, make them smaller.
2. (This rarely happens) If someone DCs from the dungeon in a thinly veiled attempt to get kicked, 3 man the dungeon.

[Sassi666]

I don't mind speed running if people want to but problems occur when you get people leaving or kicking because you don't have the right combination for a speed run. I have not done brayflox hard yet and need it for my animus book. I'm dreading it because I'll be new and running it with a friend. A Bard/dragoon combo is not going to be received well speed runs are great if you're a black mage but some classes get the short end of the stick.

[Staris]

How about non-consenting slow runs? Why must we get paired with people who play this game like they are a cashier at Macy's.

[Dimitrii]

A Bard/dragoon combo is not going to be received well speed runs are great if you're a black mage but some classes get the short end of the stick.

Not really, you can do it fine with bard and dragoon (just not as efficiently as with blm's obviously). Its monks that people want absolutely no part of in speed runs as they are the most inefficient dps in the game for such a run. They generally get the most ragequit out of people out of all the dps when people first zone into a brayflox dungeon. I personally love monk as its my favorite dps but honestly speaking they suck in dungeon speed running (and to a lesser extent dungeons period since u will constantly be losing GL stacks) which I guess is fair anyway since they are arguably the dps kings when it comes to single target boss type contents.

[Donjo]

How about non-consenting slow runs? Why must we get paired with people who play this game like they are a cashier at Macy's.

In the way you are using it, slow is relative. When we think about actual fact, a run in which enemies are pulled exactly one group at a time is a run performed at the intended pace for the dungeon. Doing something to slow this down, such as pulling enemies in somehow smaller numbers or dilly dallying between groups for no reason, creates a slow run. Likewise, a fast run is a run in which enemies are pulled in more than one group at a time and a speedrun is a run in which pulls are performed at the maximum level of what a party can handle.

There can be a stigma against slow runs, as those can only be reliably performed by trolls. Runs at a normal pace, however, should not receive a stigma, and the fact that they do is another reason that some people greatly dislike the speedrun mentality.

[PetiteMalFleur]

Just go back after the dungeon is complete and loot the missed coffers.

[Synestr]

Just go back after the dungeon is complete and loot the missed coffers.

^

Every single time. When Myth farms were going hot, I did that all the time after second boss in Bray HM. Let the kitteh pass go grab my free accessory out of the chest for some seals.

Ahhh...those were the days.

Syn