Desynthesis Endgame Guide

[Mature]

I'm stuck in 85.0 as a gsm what can I use to push to 90? Preferably not to expensive to make :/ . My other question is after what is the max desynth lvl? 110.00 or 100.00?

[Nyalia]

Speaking of Heavensward, do people here think the items that require Battlecraft to make would continue to be very desirable for glamour? It's not confirmed if desynthesis will continue in Heavensward, right? And even if it is, I'm sure we'd be getting Battlecraft Demimateria IV and so forth.

Therefore, with supply of old Battlecraft way down, could I make a ton of money by just saving what I have now on a retainer and selling it some months from now? Or is it more likely that it would just continue to plummet to nothing? Perhaps only grade III would increase in value?

Well, if your question is, "will we be able to continue desynthing things in Heavensward," I think it's clear that yes, we can. If you're asking, "will there be new demimateria and an increase in desynth cap and new Careful Desynthesis items and so on in Heavensward," the answer isn't 100% certain, but I would be very surprised if it wasn't true. I'm expecting BC4s and FC4s. I'm expecting a new form of MCD. There will be new fish, and the new fish will have new things obtainable via desynth, even if just one new thing and it's a minion. Almost all new materials have been added to new fish - there are fish for Allagan Silk, Waterproof Cotton, Ferberite, Borax, IV materia, and so on.

There are two ways I feel that BC3s can go. Either there will be new, easier to obtain items that desynth into BC3s, like easy level i65+ crafts or i65+ vendor-bought items, or whatever. Or, there won't be. If there are new, easier to obtain items that desynth into BC3s, the price will drop, possibly tank. If there aren't, the price will go up, even if there aren't new recipes that use them because the glamour items are still desirable (and there are likely to be Primal i95 crafted items for the new classes from what I heard). Even if BC4s exist in 3.0, BC3s are likely to continue to be used. Many items that require BC3s require BC2s as well, and many that use BC2s also use BC1s. If many new items require BC3s, the price will spike upward even if there are new sources for it, but if there are plentiful new sources, the price will then plummet.

It's really hard to predict what's going to happen. Based on trends, I expect the price to spike upward just around 3.0's release even if nothing changes just because people will be buying them up in case they're required for things. After that, it depends on what the limiting factor is for new crafted gear. If it's easier to get the other items needed than the BC3s, and the gear is desirable (for use or vanity), price will keep going up. If the BC3-requiring items have another requirement that's harder to achieve, like if BC4s are required too and only drop from hard-to-obtain items, then the value of BC3s will drop since the demand will be limited by the supply of BC4s or whatever.

Personally, I currently have my BC3s up for higher than the market value. I think I'm going to either take all my BC3s off the market, or raise the price way above the market value. The former is great for watching the market in case of a massive spike in value, the latter is better if there's a massive but brief spike and the value plummets immediately after.


Also, for all we know, in HW, the i90 crafted items like Saurian Leather will be easily obtainable in some manner (maybe we will be able to send retainers out for it even?) making pre-existing crafted items that desynth to BC3s tank in expense, causing a drop in the price of BC3s. There are so many factors, it's hard to tell. I certainly didn't expect the value of FC3s, for instance, to tank hard when 2.4 came out. That was really surprising and probably ruined many people's economic engines (and then fueled others <_<).

So, on that note, what if we get something equivalent, a 6,000 gil Vendor item that desynths to BC3s? That will drop the value by 60-90% in about two days, if that long. If you ditch your stock of BC3s now, you protect yourself from that scenario, but if you hold on to them (or collect more), you could make a fortune if the price/need spikes instead.

Really, in the end, it all comes down to the question: how much do you like gambling? Hate gambling? Dump stock. Like gambling? Build stock. Neutral on the subject? Hold steady, watch the market, and capitalize however you can. (Of course, if you hate gambling, why are you desynthing in the first place...?)

[Nyalia]

I'm stuck in 85.0 as a gsm what can I use to push to 90? Preferably not to expensive to make :/ . My other question is after what is the max desynth lvl? 110.00 or 100.00?

Oh, oops, it looks like I accidentally removed that little detail from the OP (the desynth cap). I'll put that back. The cap is 110.00 per class, 350.00 total across all classes.

For 85+ GSM, I'd have to check current prices, which I can't do now. At one point, Garden Ponds were good, but I'm uncertain if that's still true. You really are best off desynthing r90 items at this point, even if your chances are only 40%. Gold Specs can be a good choice too, if the mats aren't too bad. I don't know - prices keep changing (they increased dungeon yields, lowered GC prices, and added Oaknots since the last time I mathed everything) and I don't always keep up.

Options for you:

- If you PvP, you can do Warwolf or Direwolf accessories. Warwolf will be 625 Wolf Marks (~1/0.75/0.5 per FL if you come in 1st/2nd/3rd), have a chance of dropping 1x BC3, you'd have a 77.5% chance to desynth, and they'd give about ~0.10 dSkill. Direwolf will be 1250 Wolf Marks (twice the price), have a chance of dropping 1-2x BC3s (~3x the yield of Warwolf), you'd have a 40% chance to desynth, and they'd give about ~0.50 dSkill. Up to you which is better, they're about the same as far as BC3 yield and dSkill are concerned when you factor in the fail rate difference. Let's see though...

(600/450/300 marks / 1 1st/2nd/3rd) * (1 attempt / 625 marks) * (0.1 dSkill / 1 success) * (0.775 success / 1 attempt) = 0.0744 dSkill per 1st, 0.0558 dSkill per 2nd, 0.0372 dSkill per 3rd

(600/450/300 marks / 1 1st/2nd/3rd) * (1 attempt / 1250 marks) * (0.5 dSkill / 1 success) * (0.4 success / 1 attempt) = 0.096 dSkill per 1st, 0.072 dSkill per 2nd, 0.048 dSkill per 3rd

Now, adding in HQ Bacon Broth and HQ Tinker's Calm:

(600/450/300 marks / 1 1st/2nd/3rd) * (1 attempt / 625 marks) * (0.1 dSkill / 1 success) * (0.925 success / 1 attempt) = 0.0888 dSkill per 1st, 0.0666 dSkill per 2nd, 0.0444 dSkill per 3rd

(600/450/300 marks / 1 1st/2nd/3rd) * (1 attempt / 1250 marks) * (0.5 dSkill / 1 success) * (0.55 success / 1 attempt) = 0.132 dSkill per 1st, 0.099 dSkill per 2nd, 0.066 dSkill per 3rd

Wow, that's a nice increase. If I were you, I'd probably go the PvP route. 10 games per skill point isn't bad, given it also gives you BC3s which are relatively valuable on my server. I'd use the Direwolf accessories, and I'd save up a large number of wolf marks and accessories, then use a single HQ Bacon Broth and a single HQ Tinker's Calm to break 20-30 accessories. 18 should be enough to get you from 85 to 90, assuming average luck. Of course, my math isn't taking into consideration the increase in success rate and decrease in experience caused by leveling, but they should more or less balance out in the short term.


- If you don't like PvP, check the price of Gold Spectacles these days. It's probably not low enough to be a good choice, but it might be. The Terminus Putty is probably the most expensive part. It's what, 10k each these days? If the specs are 24k each to make (I dunno really), you should be able to quad meld them for like, 1k more, for a total of 21k. That gives you a 60% desynth chance, increasable to 75% with HQ Tinker's Calm+Bacon Broth. 25k for a 75% chance at ~0.5 dSkill isn't bad. That's about ~67k per 1 dSkill, ignoring the cost of the Tinker's Calm/Bacon Broth (you should desynth a lot at once if you use those, so the cost should work out to be negligable when divided 20 times). Ignoring the Tinker's/Bacon, you get a cost of ~83k per 1 dSkill. This can also yield 1-2x BC3s, which is nice.

- Furnace Rings are another choice. How expensive are Aged Eyes of Fire on your server? Belah'dian Silver should be really cheap, and Aged Eyes of Fire should be worth 3k/0.2=~15k each, yielding a price of about 20k. But, you can't meld them, so that's like ~20k/0.4/0.5 = ~100k per 1 dSkill without Tinker's/Bacon, and ~72k per 1 dSkill with Tinker's/Bacon. If Eyes of Fire are cheaper though, or you have a stockpile of them from desynthing your own Aged Rings to level earlier, then this may be viable.

- I don't think Garden Ponds are going to be a good choice. They take 4x Terminus Putty. They were a decent choice back when FC3s were valuable, but they aren't.

- If you want to run dungeons for the items, T4 spam is probably your best bet. It takes ~5 minutes round trip and can yield 7 GSM-desynthable items. The first chest can drop 3 GSM desynthable items (DRG/MNK, SCH/WHM, WAR/PLD) out of 9, and the second can drop 4 GSM desynthable items (DRG/MNK, BRD/NIN, BLM/SMN, WHM/SCH) out of 9. If you're also a WVR desynther, WHM/SCH is a great choice because there are also 2 WVR-desynthable SCH/WHM items out of those 18. If you are also an ARM desynther, DRG/MNK is a great choice because there are also 2 ARM-desynthable DRG/MNK items out of those 18 (1 per chest in both cases).

So, if you run as WHM/SCH/MNK/DRG, need on your class's GSM desynth items and greed on other class's GSM desynth items, and assuming you have a 0.5 chance for the needs and a 0.15 chance for the greeds (some people don't wait for loot rolls or don't roll on non-Allagan mats), you'll get on average (0+0+0+0+0+0+0.15+0.15+0.5)/9=0.0889 desynthable items from the first chest and (0+0+0+0+0+0.15+0.15+0.15+0.5)=0.1055 desynthable from the second, giving a total of 0.194 items per run. Rounding that to 0.2 items per run, and counting it as 10 runs per hour (factoring in queue times and all), that's 2 desynth attempts per hour. Your success rate for these will be 40% without Bacon/Tinker's and 55% with Bacon/Tinker's, and you're getting ~0.5 dSkill per success, so that's (2 attempts / 1 hour) * (0.40[0.55] successes / 1 attempt) * (0.5 dSkill / 1 success) = 0.4 dSkill per hour without Bacon/Tinker's, and 0.55 dSkill per hour with Bacon/Tinker's. Plus, you can get BC3s from these and Allagan materials (Allagan Silk, Allagan Leather, Allagan Wootz Nuggets) from T4.


So there you go - what price do you consider better? (first number is without Bacon/Tinker's, second number is with)
- PvP - Direwolf Accessories (assuming 2nd place): ~13.89/10 games per dSkill (~0.072/0.099 dSkill per game)
- Crafting - Quad Melded Gold Specs: ~83,000/67,000 gil per dSkill
- Dungeons - T4: ~2.5/1.8 hours per dSkill (0.4/0.55 dSkill per hour)



EDIT: Upon further reflection, I have decided to refer to "HQ Tinker's Calm + HQ Bacon Broth" in the future as "Tinker's Bacon" for short.

[Mature]

Thanks for the answer!

[Teiren]

Ah yeah, I didn't mean to imply they'd be removing Desynthesis. That'd be silly. I just feel like Desynthesis was an experiment in ARR, and it feels like they won't continue it. However, if they do continue it, then certainly they'll introduce an easier way to level through 80-110 with easy items, like from a vendor, to desynthesize. However they could just remove BC3's from such items.

So okay, in the end it is all about gambling with the future. I have to make this decision myself...oh well, I only have 5 BC3's left anyway. I ended up selling a bunch some time ago, but I was just curious what your take is on it and what the BC3 market has been like because I haven't been playing for a few months now. And yeah, at 110 GSM & LTW and 81 BSM Desynthesis skill, I'm well-acquainted with the gambling nature. ;_;

Anyway, I think your take on a rush happening at or near 3.0 is correct. I'll wait until then for selling those 5 and any others I happen to get. Thanks.

[Nyalia]

They didn't remove FC3s from wedding items when they added those to vendors. I don't expect them to do the same with any i70+ Battlecraft items added to vendors. They are trying to make older content more accessible when they can, so I don't see why they would change the desynth formulas. BC3s are the limiting factor in many items that will now be primarily glamour items - Bright Primal weapons and Wootz/Ebony weapons.

Of course, we don't know the ilvl/rlvl of "common" required level 51-60 items. "Common" required level 50 crafted items were r55. For all we know, there won't be level 60 "common" (read: made with easily obtainable materials) crafted items, only endgame items (r130+). They are keeping quiet about what ilvls/rlvls will be like in the expansion. Which is a good thing - it keeps the playing field more level, rather than favoring people who obsessively read interviews and promo material. Pre-crashing economies in anticipation of future content is a bad thing, imo.

Also, last I heard, they were thinking about introducing equipment with "Careful Desynthesis" on it. Maybe they really meant the medicine/food they've already released, but I'm holding out for some equipment too. I'm curious if they are going to raise the desynth caps high enough to let us desynth new endgame items with good chances (and old ones - i130 stuff with 110 skill would be horrible), or if they are going the route of more "Careful Desynthesis" items. Hopefully they'll do both, but we'll see!


In preparation for the expansion, I have an armory chest full of the i100 soldiery items. I've even started using Oils of Time on items I plan to desynth just so I could fit another one in my inventory <_< I have mostly accessories for GSM, but also belts for LTW. I'm trying to figure out of it's worth it to dump all of my soldiery on desynth fodder just before the end of 2.x since I expect soldiery (and the ability to trade it in for items) to be removed just like was done with Philo and Myth, or if I should hold on to it for a small boost to Law or Esoterics... I wonder if Poetics will go away too? They haven't done two tomestones at once yet before.

[Teiren]

It's exactly because BC3 is the limiting factor that I'm guessing they would remove them from catchup items. I'm assuming that they would want you to have to go back and do old content for equipment from that era. That's what WoW would do with an expansion, but then again this game isn't always exactly like WoW, and because of Level Sync you can't just steamroll old content like in WoW, so maybe they'll be nice and let you get BC3 from catchup items after all.

Regardless, my educated guess is catchup items will be specially manipulated in such a way that your success chance is much higher than normal while yielding much higher skill gain than normal. Otherwise, they're going to have to add a lot of catchup items. Desynthesis works the way it does now to play with the ever-present excess of unwanted gear at max level, but when level 50 is a mere rest stop rather than the final destination where a ton of items gather, I don't think it'd be reasonable to ask people to level a desynthesis skill through 80-110, or even 70-110 for some, at the same rate as now.

As for Careful Desynthesis on gear, I think it'll be as uncommon as Increased Spiritbond Gain, or in other words there probably won't be a whole set for it but it also won't be too rare.

When it comes to tomestones, I predict that Soldiery will be scrapped immediately on, or 1 week after, 3.0 with Poetics taking its place, and whichever is the lower tier of Law/Esoterics will take Poetics's current place. Then 1 month from 3.0, which is when they plan to unlock the Alexander raid dungeon, they'll move to Law & Esoterics.

[Manikku]

So I need confirmation about this: is it possible to get demimog materias and the other primal demimaterias from the current hard/extreme mode gear or is it an old content thing only?
Im asking because im between wasting a ton of money to get one now before they poof or if i should just wait and make it on my own.

[Zorlinta]

Manikku not sure what you mean with old content, but the demimog demimateria and other primal demimaterias came from the primal battles items desynthesis, maybe is not very explicit on first post.

[Nyalia]

So I need confirmation about this: is it possible to get demimog materias and the other primal demimaterias from the current hard/extreme mode gear or is it an old content thing only?
Im asking because im between wasting a ton of money to get one now before they poof or if i should just wait and make it on my own.

Demimog Demimateria are definitely obtained by desynthing the i75 Moogle equipment dropped from Thornmarch (Hard) (<-- aka story mode). However, no one has yet confirmed for me whether or not you can get Demimog Demimateria from desynthing the i100 Ribbons from Thornmarch (Extreme). I'm not a WVR desynther, and my wife (who is) doesn't run Ex Primals very often.

Keep in mind that yields are never 100%. You have about a 16% chance (extensive testing has not been conducted) of getting Demimog Demimateria. If you do get some, you may get 1x, 2x, or 3x.