Desynthesis Endgame Guide

[PandaPause]

Chances are extremely high that they will be desynthable in 3.0, which comes out in either 10 days or 14 (dunno how much early access will include). However, chances are also extremely high that MCDs will be worthless in 3.0. It is unclear if generic level 60 requiring gear will be superior to Artisan's crafted gear or not, and it's unclear just how hard Red and Blue Scrips are to acquire (crafting/gathering Tomestone-like tokens that you exchange for endgame crafting/gathering gear, similar to current Poetics gear for combat classes).

Following patterns, it's likely FC4s will exist and MCDs will not be used for future items, or will be obtainable from easily obtained equipment. I'm expecting MCD2s to exist, possibly renamed.

I can see this happening as well but what are your thoughts on Lucis items? Do you think they will have their place in 3.0 or perhaps even be needed for the new synth recipes or gathering nodes?

If they are then MCD's may still hold some value.

[Nyalia]

I can see this happening as well but what are your thoughts on Lucis items? Do you think they will have their place in 3.0 or perhaps even be needed for the new synth recipes or gathering nodes?

If they are then MCD's may still hold some value.

This is a good point and a good question, and we can only speculate on the answer. However, what I meant to say was that I am expecting MCDs to not be worth nearly as much as they are right now even if they are still needed. I am expecting MCDs to be obtainable by desynthing new items, especially items obtainable via the Scrip system. SE is big on catch-up mechanics, and they've stated many times that they're trying to make crafting and gathering more accessible. I do not expect anything that's needed for progression to endgame crafting in 3.0 to require the endgame crafting items from 2.x. Or, if they do, it'll be much easier to obtain the final items.

In other words, they won't raise the cost of entry, that would go against their goals with crafting/gathering in the expansion. Doing nothing raises the cost as more people enter the playing field trying to get their crafters/gatherers to 60. So, instead, they're going to lower the cost of entry, either by making MCDs easier to obtain or not requiring MCDs at all for endgame stuff, just like they did with FC3s. They can make MCDs easier to obtain by having them obtainable from new, easier to obtain items (like with FC3s, which are obtainable from vendor-purchasable items now), or by increasing the yield on current methods and/or increasing the range of items that can be used (like making the i70 non-head artisan's gear desynthable), or by reducing the number of MCDs needed from 3 to 1 for Supras (like they did with the token items to get Artisan's/Forager's mainhands), or by eliminating MCDs entirely from the Supra requirements (unlikely).

What I really expect to happen though is for Lucis to be either only slightly better than endgame level 60 3.0 gear that does not require Lucis to get, or Lucis to be inferior to endgame level 60 3.0 gear that does not require Lucis to get. Either way, I do not expect Lucis to be required for endgame 3.0 content, and definitely not for endgame 3.2 content. I could of course be wrong, but that really isn't the way they're going.

And, on top of all that, they've said they will be introducing new "crafting/gathering tomestones" (Red/Blue Scrips), which will be tradeable for endgame gear. I expect that gear to include main hands, just like it does for DoW/DoM classes. Having a Lucis will certainly make progression to endgame crafting easier, especially since you can then afford to hold off on upgrading your main hand for a while and focus on the rest of your gear. But I don't expect it to be required.


What I'm hoping for, and this is just a hope, is that Lucis items will be trade-in-able for credit toward the new endgame main hand, just like Zodiac Zetas will be somehow trade-in-able for a jumpstart of some kind toward the new 3.0 relic weapon. Chances of that aren't great though - crafting/gathering "relics" have so far been handled totally differently than DoW/DoM relics.


As an aside, while on this topic, I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed that endgame crafter/gatherer gear obtained via Scrips will not be meldable. They've stated a desire to get away from the meld-heavy endgame for crafters and gatherers due to the cost-of-entry issues it creates. So, endgame crafting/gathering is likely to be much more reachable than it currently is across the board.

[Kiara]

As an aside, while on this topic, I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed that endgame crafter/gatherer gear obtained via Scrips will not be meldable. They've stated a desire to get away from the meld-heavy endgame for crafters and gatherers due to the cost-of-entry issues it creates. So, endgame crafting/gathering is likely to be much more reachable than it currently is across the board.

Great thoughts Nya.

I agree. I'm also curious about how Materia Melded Gear fits in. It was one interview where Yoshi P was talking about the Blue/Red Scrips, and making crafting more accesible (like w/ Tomestones), which is great, but he also mentioned how hardcore crafters could still utilize Materia Melded Gear in some way.

Perhaps Penta-Melded Crafting Gear will be like it is now (BiS), but you can trade for the Artisan's NPC Gear in Mor Dhona that's only *slightly* less potent?

We'll see.

[Empty-handed]

i hope this system does not come back or get any update. the way it is right now.

unless they rework the desynth process. and make it reverse-crafting where you require "skill" to properly break something and get the ingredient you want out of it.

instead of a 1 button. then pray to your gods. and hope you get master demi

something like:
it will use CP when you desynth it becomes DP (desynth points). 2 bars. 1) representing the desynth progress. 2) representing desynth quality. (1% to 30% = shards, 30% to 60% = basic mats, 60% to 100% = the master demi materia kind of items)
comfort zone, inner quiet, steady hand 2, hasty desynth, hasty desynth.... etc etc. finish with careful desynth. lol

[Mature]

I'm stuck in 85.0 as a gsm what can I use to push to 90? Preferably not to expensive to make :/ . My other question is after what is the max desynth lvl? 110.00 or 100.00?

[Nyalia]

I'm stuck in 85.0 as a gsm what can I use to push to 90? Preferably not to expensive to make :/ . My other question is after what is the max desynth lvl? 110.00 or 100.00?

Oh, oops, it looks like I accidentally removed that little detail from the OP (the desynth cap). I'll put that back. The cap is 110.00 per class, 350.00 total across all classes.

For 85+ GSM, I'd have to check current prices, which I can't do now. At one point, Garden Ponds were good, but I'm uncertain if that's still true. You really are best off desynthing r90 items at this point, even if your chances are only 40%. Gold Specs can be a good choice too, if the mats aren't too bad. I don't know - prices keep changing (they increased dungeon yields, lowered GC prices, and added Oaknots since the last time I mathed everything) and I don't always keep up.

Options for you:

- If you PvP, you can do Warwolf or Direwolf accessories. Warwolf will be 625 Wolf Marks (~1/0.75/0.5 per FL if you come in 1st/2nd/3rd), have a chance of dropping 1x BC3, you'd have a 77.5% chance to desynth, and they'd give about ~0.10 dSkill. Direwolf will be 1250 Wolf Marks (twice the price), have a chance of dropping 1-2x BC3s (~3x the yield of Warwolf), you'd have a 40% chance to desynth, and they'd give about ~0.50 dSkill. Up to you which is better, they're about the same as far as BC3 yield and dSkill are concerned when you factor in the fail rate difference. Let's see though...

(600/450/300 marks / 1 1st/2nd/3rd) * (1 attempt / 625 marks) * (0.1 dSkill / 1 success) * (0.775 success / 1 attempt) = 0.0744 dSkill per 1st, 0.0558 dSkill per 2nd, 0.0372 dSkill per 3rd

(600/450/300 marks / 1 1st/2nd/3rd) * (1 attempt / 1250 marks) * (0.5 dSkill / 1 success) * (0.4 success / 1 attempt) = 0.096 dSkill per 1st, 0.072 dSkill per 2nd, 0.048 dSkill per 3rd

Now, adding in HQ Bacon Broth and HQ Tinker's Calm:

(600/450/300 marks / 1 1st/2nd/3rd) * (1 attempt / 625 marks) * (0.1 dSkill / 1 success) * (0.925 success / 1 attempt) = 0.0888 dSkill per 1st, 0.0666 dSkill per 2nd, 0.0444 dSkill per 3rd

(600/450/300 marks / 1 1st/2nd/3rd) * (1 attempt / 1250 marks) * (0.5 dSkill / 1 success) * (0.55 success / 1 attempt) = 0.132 dSkill per 1st, 0.099 dSkill per 2nd, 0.066 dSkill per 3rd

Wow, that's a nice increase. If I were you, I'd probably go the PvP route. 10 games per skill point isn't bad, given it also gives you BC3s which are relatively valuable on my server. I'd use the Direwolf accessories, and I'd save up a large number of wolf marks and accessories, then use a single HQ Bacon Broth and a single HQ Tinker's Calm to break 20-30 accessories. 18 should be enough to get you from 85 to 90, assuming average luck. Of course, my math isn't taking into consideration the increase in success rate and decrease in experience caused by leveling, but they should more or less balance out in the short term.


- If you don't like PvP, check the price of Gold Spectacles these days. It's probably not low enough to be a good choice, but it might be. The Terminus Putty is probably the most expensive part. It's what, 10k each these days? If the specs are 24k each to make (I dunno really), you should be able to quad meld them for like, 1k more, for a total of 21k. That gives you a 60% desynth chance, increasable to 75% with HQ Tinker's Calm+Bacon Broth. 25k for a 75% chance at ~0.5 dSkill isn't bad. That's about ~67k per 1 dSkill, ignoring the cost of the Tinker's Calm/Bacon Broth (you should desynth a lot at once if you use those, so the cost should work out to be negligable when divided 20 times). Ignoring the Tinker's/Bacon, you get a cost of ~83k per 1 dSkill. This can also yield 1-2x BC3s, which is nice.

- Furnace Rings are another choice. How expensive are Aged Eyes of Fire on your server? Belah'dian Silver should be really cheap, and Aged Eyes of Fire should be worth 3k/0.2=~15k each, yielding a price of about 20k. But, you can't meld them, so that's like ~20k/0.4/0.5 = ~100k per 1 dSkill without Tinker's/Bacon, and ~72k per 1 dSkill with Tinker's/Bacon. If Eyes of Fire are cheaper though, or you have a stockpile of them from desynthing your own Aged Rings to level earlier, then this may be viable.

- I don't think Garden Ponds are going to be a good choice. They take 4x Terminus Putty. They were a decent choice back when FC3s were valuable, but they aren't.

- If you want to run dungeons for the items, T4 spam is probably your best bet. It takes ~5 minutes round trip and can yield 7 GSM-desynthable items. The first chest can drop 3 GSM desynthable items (DRG/MNK, SCH/WHM, WAR/PLD) out of 9, and the second can drop 4 GSM desynthable items (DRG/MNK, BRD/NIN, BLM/SMN, WHM/SCH) out of 9. If you're also a WVR desynther, WHM/SCH is a great choice because there are also 2 WVR-desynthable SCH/WHM items out of those 18. If you are also an ARM desynther, DRG/MNK is a great choice because there are also 2 ARM-desynthable DRG/MNK items out of those 18 (1 per chest in both cases).

So, if you run as WHM/SCH/MNK/DRG, need on your class's GSM desynth items and greed on other class's GSM desynth items, and assuming you have a 0.5 chance for the needs and a 0.15 chance for the greeds (some people don't wait for loot rolls or don't roll on non-Allagan mats), you'll get on average (0+0+0+0+0+0+0.15+0.15+0.5)/9=0.0889 desynthable items from the first chest and (0+0+0+0+0+0.15+0.15+0.15+0.5)=0.1055 desynthable from the second, giving a total of 0.194 items per run. Rounding that to 0.2 items per run, and counting it as 10 runs per hour (factoring in queue times and all), that's 2 desynth attempts per hour. Your success rate for these will be 40% without Bacon/Tinker's and 55% with Bacon/Tinker's, and you're getting ~0.5 dSkill per success, so that's (2 attempts / 1 hour) * (0.40[0.55] successes / 1 attempt) * (0.5 dSkill / 1 success) = 0.4 dSkill per hour without Bacon/Tinker's, and 0.55 dSkill per hour with Bacon/Tinker's. Plus, you can get BC3s from these and Allagan materials (Allagan Silk, Allagan Leather, Allagan Wootz Nuggets) from T4.


So there you go - what price do you consider better? (first number is without Bacon/Tinker's, second number is with)
- PvP - Direwolf Accessories (assuming 2nd place): ~13.89/10 games per dSkill (~0.072/0.099 dSkill per game)
- Crafting - Quad Melded Gold Specs: ~83,000/67,000 gil per dSkill
- Dungeons - T4: ~2.5/1.8 hours per dSkill (0.4/0.55 dSkill per hour)



EDIT: Upon further reflection, I have decided to refer to "HQ Tinker's Calm + HQ Bacon Broth" in the future as "Tinker's Bacon" for short.

[Mature]

Thanks for the answer!

[Teiren]

Ah yeah, I didn't mean to imply they'd be removing Desynthesis. That'd be silly. I just feel like Desynthesis was an experiment in ARR, and it feels like they won't continue it. However, if they do continue it, then certainly they'll introduce an easier way to level through 80-110 with easy items, like from a vendor, to desynthesize. However they could just remove BC3's from such items.

So okay, in the end it is all about gambling with the future. I have to make this decision myself...oh well, I only have 5 BC3's left anyway. I ended up selling a bunch some time ago, but I was just curious what your take is on it and what the BC3 market has been like because I haven't been playing for a few months now. And yeah, at 110 GSM & LTW and 81 BSM Desynthesis skill, I'm well-acquainted with the gambling nature. ;_;

Anyway, I think your take on a rush happening at or near 3.0 is correct. I'll wait until then for selling those 5 and any others I happen to get. Thanks.

[Nyalia]

They didn't remove FC3s from wedding items when they added those to vendors. I don't expect them to do the same with any i70+ Battlecraft items added to vendors. They are trying to make older content more accessible when they can, so I don't see why they would change the desynth formulas. BC3s are the limiting factor in many items that will now be primarily glamour items - Bright Primal weapons and Wootz/Ebony weapons.

Of course, we don't know the ilvl/rlvl of "common" required level 51-60 items. "Common" required level 50 crafted items were r55. For all we know, there won't be level 60 "common" (read: made with easily obtainable materials) crafted items, only endgame items (r130+). They are keeping quiet about what ilvls/rlvls will be like in the expansion. Which is a good thing - it keeps the playing field more level, rather than favoring people who obsessively read interviews and promo material. Pre-crashing economies in anticipation of future content is a bad thing, imo.

Also, last I heard, they were thinking about introducing equipment with "Careful Desynthesis" on it. Maybe they really meant the medicine/food they've already released, but I'm holding out for some equipment too. I'm curious if they are going to raise the desynth caps high enough to let us desynth new endgame items with good chances (and old ones - i130 stuff with 110 skill would be horrible), or if they are going the route of more "Careful Desynthesis" items. Hopefully they'll do both, but we'll see!


In preparation for the expansion, I have an armory chest full of the i100 soldiery items. I've even started using Oils of Time on items I plan to desynth just so I could fit another one in my inventory <_< I have mostly accessories for GSM, but also belts for LTW. I'm trying to figure out of it's worth it to dump all of my soldiery on desynth fodder just before the end of 2.x since I expect soldiery (and the ability to trade it in for items) to be removed just like was done with Philo and Myth, or if I should hold on to it for a small boost to Law or Esoterics... I wonder if Poetics will go away too? They haven't done two tomestones at once yet before.

[Teiren]

It's exactly because BC3 is the limiting factor that I'm guessing they would remove them from catchup items. I'm assuming that they would want you to have to go back and do old content for equipment from that era. That's what WoW would do with an expansion, but then again this game isn't always exactly like WoW, and because of Level Sync you can't just steamroll old content like in WoW, so maybe they'll be nice and let you get BC3 from catchup items after all.

Regardless, my educated guess is catchup items will be specially manipulated in such a way that your success chance is much higher than normal while yielding much higher skill gain than normal. Otherwise, they're going to have to add a lot of catchup items. Desynthesis works the way it does now to play with the ever-present excess of unwanted gear at max level, but when level 50 is a mere rest stop rather than the final destination where a ton of items gather, I don't think it'd be reasonable to ask people to level a desynthesis skill through 80-110, or even 70-110 for some, at the same rate as now.

As for Careful Desynthesis on gear, I think it'll be as uncommon as Increased Spiritbond Gain, or in other words there probably won't be a whole set for it but it also won't be too rare.

When it comes to tomestones, I predict that Soldiery will be scrapped immediately on, or 1 week after, 3.0 with Poetics taking its place, and whichever is the lower tier of Law/Esoterics will take Poetics's current place. Then 1 month from 3.0, which is when they plan to unlock the Alexander raid dungeon, they'll move to Law & Esoterics.