Design Flaws with Atma, let me count the ways

[Ringabell]

Atma rates are low because they don't want a ton of people to have Animus & Novus weapons.

If getting Atma was like getting Alexandrite, which is damn-near guaranteed with dailys & maps, how many people would have an Animus? Answer: EVERYONE.

Everyone would have one. There would be no need to do Primals for weapons. There would be no need for weathered weapons. There would be no need to get High Allagan weapons. EVERYONE would have Animus, then Novus weapons.

It would make ilvl 100 weapons the basic standard that everyone has and cause other weapons to be obsolete.

So they put Relic+1 weapons behind the frustrating, infuriating RNG of Atma. It wasn't a mistake. They knew what they were doing. They knew that most people would be turned off and give up, moving on to other options. This is why they refuse to raise the Atma drop rate. Because if they do then the Relic+1 weapons would become too common.

Grinding for Atma was one of the most sucky experiences I've had in FFXIV. And they're not going to change it. As weird as it sounds, it isn't SUPPOSED to be fun, because if it was fun then everyone would do it for however long it takes and eventually get their Relic+1! They don't want EVERYONE to have a Relic+1. They want it to be rare and special.

Something isn't special when everyone has it.

[Rex]

OP, you're like 5 months too late here. The Atma complaint train has come and gone. Either do it, or you don't. The end.

They are... in that they've outright quit the game. It's easy to dismiss peoples' compaints but it isn't exactly a healthy approach. The reason these threads keep popping up is because some people are very disappointed in what they've been paying for.

If they quit, then they quit. That's their choice. As a game developer, you don't bend over backwards and constantly change the rules of every little thing everywhere because someone doesn't like a mechanic. Because then you'll find yourself constantly changing it because once you change it for that one player, there will be another player who wants it the way it was. By caving in for one player, all the other players will expect the same treatment. Not good.

There was a time where the game developer created the game, and the player dealt with it.

Today, Game developers make a game, and the players complain until the developers change it for them. I don't believe that's how it should be.


Yoshi-P already dealt with this mentality. He said he's doing his best to create a game that appeals to the masses, but he knows it won't appeal to everyone. Because you can't make EVERYONE happy.

[Avarghaladion]

Atma rates are low because they don't want a ton of people to have Animus & Novus weapons.

Yet they're having issues with enough people having it to satisfy their projections. Additionally, how did the ease of attaining Zenith weapons prior to Atma+ break or unbalance the game in any way? If the game's core concepts were fun and functional before, the only logical defense for your claim that they don't want people to get it now is strictly as an anti-content stall tactic not dissimilar to the sort we became accustomed to a few years ago in XI.

If getting Atma was like getting Alexandrite, which is damn-near guaranteed with dailys & maps, how many people would have an Animus? Answer: EVERYONE.

Everyone would have one. There would be no need to do Primals for weapons. There would be no need for weathered weapons. There would be no need to get High Allagan weapons. EVERYONE would have Animus, then Novus weapons.

I am not a proponent of handing the item out. However, explain how your example is in any way superior to the current model whereby only the extremely lucky or those capable of putting in hundreds of hours are priviliged with weapons that are, at best, tied with or marginally better than BiS yet are fundamental to the lore of the game. How do you rationalize some people getting their Atma set in less than fifty FATEs while others go a thousand without finishing? The very fact that people can get Animus is less than an hour completely shuts down your entire logical approach to your perception of the developers' intent.

It would make ilvl 100 weapons the basic standard that everyone has and cause other weapons to be obsolete.

Again, exactly how i90 weapons were the basic standard before. Game wasn't broken. New players were excited. Things were looking up. Post Atma? At least a dozen in game friends have quit and 5-6 irl friends... and not the grind-squeemish types. It's not the grind. It's that it's bad game design.

So they put Relic+1 weapons behind the frustrating, infuriating RNG of Atma. It wasn't a mistake. They knew what they were doing. They knew that most people would be turned off and give up, moving on to other options. This is why they refuse to raise the Atma drop rate. Because if they do then the Relic+1 weapons would become too common.

Grinding for Atma was one of the most sucky experiences I've had in FFXIV. And they're not going to change it.

Don't delude yourself. This isn't XI. All content in this game is constantly being adjusted (read: nerfed) at a fast enough rate that you can actually assess and optimize the value of your effort. Someone who took 1000 fates to get an Atma will be sadly disappointed if they think Atma won't be severely simplified in the near future.

As weird as it sounds, it isn't SUPPOSED to be fun, because if it was fun then everyone would do it for however long it takes and eventually get their Relic+1! They don't want EVERYONE to have a Relic+1. They want it to be rare and special.

Yet it isn't at all special at present. It's infinitely less fun to obtain than the alternatives and not at all special in its characteristics by comparison. This isn't an XI relic where it's by far BiS. The only thing special about Atma/Animus/Novus is the label that the owner is either very lucky or has an absurd amount of time on their hands. There is no indication of skill involved whatsoever. Conversely, High Allagan is representative of content related achievement.

Something isn't special when everyone has it.

It isn't special if a drunk chimpanzee has the required "skill" to acquire it either.

If they quit, then they quit. That's their choice. As a game developer, you don't bend over backwards and constantly change the rules of every little thing everywhere because someone doesn't like a mechanic. Because then you'll find yourself constantly changing it because once you change it for that one player, there will be another player who wants it the way it was. By caving in for one player, all the other players will expect the same treatment. Not good.

That got them real far in 1.0, didn't it? This is also in direct contradiction to how some people love to claim this "content" was added to please people begging for XI-style grind tripe. This is not a simple mechanic. This is lore-centric core questline gameplay. All apologists are doing is having this sort of mundane anti-content and lack of quality control spread to other aspects of the game, which we're already seeing happen.

There was a time where the game developer created the game, and the player dealt with it.

Or the company failed brutally.

Today, Game developers make a game, and the players complain until the developers change it for them. I don't believe that's how it should be.

Yoshi-P already dealt with this mentality. He said he's doing his best to create a game that appeals to the masses, but he knows it won't appeal to everyone. Because you can't make EVERYONE happy.

The "masses" do seem so pleased with the game of late. Sarcasm aside, the game doesn't change at its core when they respond to feedback, it is merely quality controlled.

[winsock]

OP, you're like 5 months too late here. The Atma complaint train has come and gone. Either do it, or you don't. The end.

I'm sure SE appreciates any and all feedback they receive. Just because SE made a decision doesn't it was the best decision to make nor does it mean they will never revisit it. If they never reconsidered their decisions, you wouldn't be playing ARR.

[hdepaula]

They totally did this on purpose, I imagine if atma was easy to get, or if you got it by doing certain mount of fates in an area? All of you would have that special weapon that you want and imagine how worthless it would become, its like if gold was easy to get as wood, worthless. The cool thing about all this hard work is having the weapon at the end and waving it around showing ppl that hard work does give u something in the end. I know we don’t HAVE to do this but we wanna be ahead of the game cuz by not doing this we are choosing to stay behind while everyone keeps going forward and we don’t wanna stay behind so we HAVE to do this. Atma has been around for the longest time and this is not the first time someone complains about this and it wont be the last, if they didn’t fix it when it came out they r not going to fix it now cuz after all you "fix" something when it doesn’t work and the atma weapon is rare but I know a few ppl who has it so its not unachievable so it does work.

[Avarghaladion]

They totally did this on purpose, I imagine if atma was easy to get, or if you got it by doing certain mount of fates in an area? All of you would have that special weapon that you want and imagine how worthless it would become, its like if gold was easy to get as wood, worthless. The cool thing about all this hard work is having the weapon at the end and waving it around showing ppl that hard work does give u something in the end. I know we don’t HAVE to do this but we wanna be ahead of the game cuz by not doing this we are choosing to stay behind while everyone keeps going forward and we don’t wanna stay behind so we HAVE to do this. Atma has been around for the longest time and this is not the first time someone complains about this and it wont be the last, if they didn’t fix it when it came out they r not going to fix it now cuz after all you "fix" something when it doesn’t work and the atma weapon is rare but I know a few ppl who has it so its not unachievable so it does work.

It isn't at all special at present. This isn't an XI relic where it's by far BiS. The only thing special about Atma/Animus/Novus is the label that the owner is either very lucky or has an absurd amount of time on their hands. There is no indication of skill involved whatsoever. Conversely, High Allagan is representative of content related achievement.

Atma has been around for a few months... not exactly the "longest time," as you put it... all content in XIV in nerfed in order to facilitate player progression. Atma will be no different. Even if they don't "fix" Atma now it will only be a few more months before they completely simplify it into the ground. Welcome to the world of vertical progression gaming a la SE. The only difference with Atma is that the quality of the pre-nerf "content" is horrendous. All players are asking is for them to implement any of a wide range of creative solutions that would fix the problem without (further) hurting content balance.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

snip

Hard work? What makes beating your head against FATE farming for Atma hard work? What makes spirit binding over and over until you get the materia you need for Novus hard work? You're doing all this "hard work" for a weapon that is easily outclassed by other weapons that take FAR less effort to get.

[hdepaula]

LOL nvm then, it could've been worse you know, imagine if Atmas were in dungeons? ppl are now quitting FF14 ARR because of this? is this some kind of Boycott? my friend was like "I know Why I’m not getting anything, its cuz I’m a healer and because this game needs a lot of healers to do shit, they are not giving us anything so we can keep repeating shit to help ppl out, If you notice, its the DPSs that are getting the Atma" I was like "-_- what? just play the game" I think its completely unfair and atma should be easier to get. I work everyday except on the weekends so I leave the Atma search for the weekends, on weekdays I Farm for Lvs, Farm for Allegans and do whatever so I don’t get tired of Atmas and stuff, but I don’t have a single one though lol but whatever, what can we do? its not like they listen to us anyways, we just have to go with the flow.

[Ringabell]

Something isn't special when everyone has it.

It isn't special if a drunk chimpanzee has the required "skill" to acquire it either.

Who said anything about skill? No, the skill-gated weapon is High Allagan.

The Atma gate is not skill. The gate is the grind that god awful RNG.

I'm not arguing for Atmas. I'm on record saying that farming for Atmas really sucked.

That said, Atmas are behaving exactly as they were intended to behave. You can break down each line of my post and respond with laser precision and well-worded arguments to the contrary, but it wasn't a huge mistake. It was planned. They knew that having an obscenely low drop rate that must be over come 12 times would gate the weapon from the masses.

They aren't stupid.

Neither are they looking at this thread shaking their collective head thinking: "We'd better raise the drop rate to 10% so everyone can get one."

No way.

Again: "ATMA FARMING SUCKS". That is my stance. It wasn't fun. I felt it basically ate into the time that I could've spent doing beneficial things like levelling another job or crafting. I even gave up on it for a while, got a Wave weapon and began farming for a Mirror. Atma sucks. But it also serves the purpose SE intended it to serve.

[Ringabell]

Hard work? What makes beating your head against FATE farming for Atma hard work? What makes spirit binding over and over until you get the materia you need for Novus hard work? You're doing all this "hard work" for a weapon that is easily outclassed by other weapons that take FAR less effort to get.

Only outclassed by High Allagan.

...but we'll see how long that lasts. Until the next Relic quest is released, perhaps?