Radars in Frontlines and Hunts - Any word from SE?

[Destain]

I want to reiterate what we announced recently, as our policy regarding third party tools remains unchanged.



We take all reports seriously and we appreciate your cooperation in reporting any issues that you discover.

Hi Grekumah!

With all due respect, it is impossible to prove this without a screen shot posted by the cheating user. Wouldn't the best fix be, given the proof of the radar app, SE make it so marks appear on everyone's mini-map? They did in 1.0 as boss icons so I am sure they could implement it again.

[Kallera]

Hi Grekumah!

With all due respect, it is impossible to prove this without a screen shot posted by the cheating user. Wouldn't the best fix be, given the proof of the radar app, SE make it so marks appear on everyone's mini-map? They did in 1.0 as boss icons so I am sure they could implement it again.

And when the app develops to include other targets or PvP targets, what then?

[AlyssaFhey]

And when the app develops to include other targets or PvP targets, what then?

Already does actually. People have complained about that too. SE seems adamant about not doing anything themselves, pushing all the word to the community. Which is bullshit. I know they can figure out who is using it. Why they aren't doing anything about is simply because they don't want to lose subs. Selfish man. SE is mad selfish, it's pathetic.

[Kallera]

Already does actually. People have complained about that too. SE seems adamant about not doing anything themselves, pushing all the word to the community. Which is bullshit. I know they can figure out who is using it. Why they aren't doing anything about is simply because they don't want to lose subs. Selfish man. SE is mad selfish, it's pathetic.

I've heard. I'm just pointing out that developing functionalities to be similar to a third party app isn't the "everybody wins" solution people think it is, and will only encourage more cheating and exploitation of the software.

[KisaiTenshi]

Hi Grekumah!

With all due respect, it is impossible to prove this without a screen shot posted by the cheating user.

Not true. It's possible for SE to have the game client take a screenshot of suspected activity and be sent to SE. I know of at least one other game that routinely did this, even though it didn't help much. Basically certain actions would trigger a screenshot (mainly zone-switches.) Though in general it's usually the foolish people advertising the fact that they cheat on youtube and tumblr that are going to get caught. They are reporting themselves.

SE could also just apply checksums loop speeds, or randomize the memory used for entities.

[Icehunter]

Not true. It's possible for SE to have the game client take a screenshot of suspected activity and be sent to SE. I know of at least one other game that routinely did this, even though it didn't help much. Basically certain actions would trigger a screenshot (mainly zone-switches.) Though in general it's usually the foolish people advertising the fact that they cheat on youtube and tumblr that are going to get caught. They are reporting themselves.

SE could also just apply checksums loop speeds, or randomize the memory used for entities.

If SE took screenshots of our desktops on a zone switch they would be in so much hot water legally it wouldn't even be funny. Running processes would be a different matter but would still require a ToS change. At least in Canada a opt-in as well because it's illegal to monitor those items here unless expressly agreed to or with a court order.

[KisaiTenshi]

If SE took screenshots of our desktops on a zone switch they would be in so much hot water legally it wouldn't even be funny. Running processes would be a different matter but would still require a ToS change. At least in Canada a opt-in as well because it's illegal to monitor those items here unless expressly agreed to or with a court order.

Have you ever read a game's ToS? They can do anything they want to your computer because you agreed to it during install. That means as long as you are running the game, the game can send any data inside the game window/process back to SE for quality/customer-service/technical reasons. As long as you can report a bug, you can also monitor a user.

What I'm saying is that is a tool SE can use, it doesn't mean that is the best tool. You don't use a hammer when you need a screwdriver so to say.

You acknowledge that Square Enix will be monitoring your use of the Game to help you play the Game, for our internal analysis to help us improve our games and services, to investigate disruptive activities or Prohibited Activities, and to confirm that you are abiding by the terms of this User Agreement and related agreements. In order to protect Square Enix's staff and customers, Square Enix may cooperate with federal, state and local law enforcement with or without the receipt of a formal subpoena or search warrant. You acknowledge and consent that Square Enix may provide your electronic communications and data, including e-mails and chat logs, to such government authorities, without any liability to you or any third party. You hereby provide your consent to such actions.

[Icehunter]

Have you ever read a game's ToS? They can do anything they want to your computer because you agreed to it. That means as long as you are running the game, the game can send any data inside the game window back to SE for quality/customer-service/technical reasons. As long as you can report a bug, you can also monitor a user.

What I'm saying is that is a tool SE can use, it doesn't mean that is the best tool. You don't use a hammer when you need a screwdriver so to say.

I have actually I've even written a few myself for work. Section 7 covers "monitoring use of the game" but without expressly stipulating visual data collection or process collection they can't do it.

In comparison. Section 15 of Blizzard's ToS:

You hereby acknowledge and agree that:

A. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN “UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM” AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT, WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME, WOULD CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF SECTIONS 1, 2 OR 7. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, BLIZZARD MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.

B. WHEN THE GAME IS RUNNING, BLIZZARD MAY OBTAIN CERTAIN IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR HARD DRIVES, CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, IP ADDRESS(ES) AND OPERATING SYSTEM(S), FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVING THE GAME AND/OR THE SERVICE, AND TO POLICE AND ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT.

C. Blizzard may, with or without notice to you, disclose your Internet Protocol (IP) address(es), personal information, chat logs, and other information about you and your activities: (a) in response to a request by law enforcement, a court order or other legal process; or (b) if Blizzard believes that doing so may protect your safety or the safety of others.

D. BLIZZARD MAY MONITOR, RECORD, REVIEW, MODIFY AND/OR DISCLOSE YOUR CHAT SESSIONS, WHETHER VOICE OR TEXT, WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU, AND YOU HEREBY CONSENT TO SUCH MONITORING, RECORDING, REVIEW, MODIFICATION AND/OR DISCLOSURE. Additionally, you acknowledge that Blizzard is under no obligation to monitor your electronic communications, and you engage in those communications at your own risk.

E. You are wholly responsible for the cost of all telephone and Internet access charges along with all necessary equipment, servicing, repair or correction incurred in maintaining connectivity to the Servers.

[KisaiTenshi]

I have actually I've even written a few myself for work. Section 7 covers "monitoring use of the game" but without expressly stipulating visual data collection or process collection they can't do it.

In comparison. Section 15 of Blizzard's ToS:

We're not disagreeing with each other about what SE can do, just if they legally should. Blizzard installs Warden, it monitors processes and is also known for flagging players with programmable keyboards and mice. That's not the issue. The issue is, the game client can take screenshots AND the game requires a constant connection to the servers. I'm only aware of this other game I mentioned doing so because it was sending the data through a form on the website automatically and the form was also used for reporting bugs and cheaters. So in that case it's a multipurpose feature.

The right tool would be not sending the entity data at all unless the server determines the player can see and hear it.

[Icehunter]

snip

They do that partially now; but even without all the stuff out there the community has jumped on this like a rabid dog and attack anyone. I think it's actually worse than XI's NM system If they started scanning process I would accept those terms. I play on PS4 now anyways hehehe