Notorious Monsters don't fit in this game.

[Taruranto]

The lack of difficulty from the hunt target and the time it takes for players to find and kill them is not a fault of the feature. It's a fault of the player base.

What the hell? Do you expect everyone to sit and /wave when the mob is already engaged by a party.

[Dhex]

Inclusive vs. Exclusive - players will look at content and they will tend to choose the path of least resistance.


- FATE/Basic Monsters are the only fully inclusive content we have. You can be in a group or solo and contribute and get credit - Allied Seals, EXP, Gil, and Atma, Basic Crafting Materials are the rewards for this content.

Hunts are similar to FATE in design - damage and participation are technically inclusive; however the reward is made exclusive by the the random and hidden locations. This exclusivity is negated somewhat by Eorzea being very small and well settled - players can easily and immediately access any area - if you then the include large social/target oriented communication networks (Linkshells) you have a very predictable style of content to exploit. Larger groups split credit - essentially locking out small man groups from both doing the content as intended and truncating their reward. This has led to several groups resorting to 3rd party tools and programs and aggressively pushing a "pay-to-join" exclusionary attitude.

Exclusive content is content that specifically bars other players from participating;

- Treasure Maps, Mystery Maps, Leves, Dungeons, Trials, Hests, Raids, and certain Quests are the exclusionary content.

The key problem FFXIV suffers from is there is no large-group exclusive content; Sycrus, Labyrinth, Coil, Frontlines are all essentially 8-man groups that are then randomly paired into an exclusive area or trial with other 8-man groups.

Hunts are bad because they're entirely an inclusive - anyone can join and toss a few hits on the monster! The problem is the rewards are exclusive based on performance; rewards that favor larger groups claiming, or wiping the original claim and reclaiming, and then zerging the monster into oblivion.

Not a well thought out content model.

If for instance the Hunt Bills allowed you to spawn a Hunt monster that is locked (exclusive) to the Player or Party it would be very similar to a Faction Leve boss ala FFXIV 1.0.

Square Enix needs to start developing exclusive content with inclusive group sizes; meaning more than 8 people. We need an Alliance function and content designed for alliances.

Not content designed for small groups and solo players that can be mobbed by alliances -> Hunts.

[Tupsi]

The only difference between with NM's in XI & XIV is that there are no placeholders in XIV.

And...

You spawn them these days and for the past 6+ years for important NMs.
There's a hierarchy system in numerous systems (Abyssea, Sky, Sea, VNM, VWNM, Delve/Fracture.)
There's battle arenas specifically for them (BCNM/KSNM/ISNM/WoE/Fracture as well/ENM/Hard Mode versions etc.)

So what was that about the "only difference"? Sure you can talk about the various tiny NMs all over the place, but Hunt system mimics the "chain of command' that XI has with certain NMs (e.g b/a/s rank) and XI has quite a few systems that stomps over XIV. But to be fair to XIV's, it was a last minute addition.

[Hulan]

The only difference between with NM's in XI & XIV is that there are no placeholders in XIV.

I would say the most important difference between the two is actually the uniqueness of the reward. In FFXI, you hunted an NM, in FFXIV you hunt NMs. There is no inherent benefit to killing one NM over another in FFXIV. In FFXI, you had a specific item in mind when you hunted an NM, and if you were competing with someone, you knew for a fact that they were there to get that one item as well. That is to say, each NM had a limited pool of players who needed that specific NM.

That isn't to say one is better than the other. In fact, I am having a fairly fun time with Hunts in FFXIV. That being said, the above is a fundamental difference that is too important to be ignored. I personally am not frustrated with Hunts, so I can't really speak from experience. But from what I have observed, I believe a big part of the frustration that people feel is that there is an inherent contradiction in the content; everyone wants every NM, and therefore, every NM is in demand by the entire server.

Another way to look at the problem is from the perspective of economics. The demand - as a result of the large number of users and perceived value of the content - is much higher than the supply. If you only got 1 Allied Seal from each NM regardless of rank, no-one would fight over them. Similarly, if you stumbled over a mark every 10 yalms, no-one would need to fight over them.

[Volsung]

snip

I'm somewhat with Dhex on this subject. It most surely is an issue of how many people
WANT to participate in this content VS how many are actually able to.

This leads to two roads for SE to go down. 1: Make less people want to do the content
or 2: Enable a way for more people to participate in various ways.

I don't think anyone really wants a useless content to be added. So the more logical way
to approach this is finding a way to let more people participate, than the current system
allows for. This doesn't just mean increasing HP or defense, which is also a valid strategy
if you don't pussyfoot around the implementation.

There are other ways to go about this, including letting players earn pop items through
various conditions.

I don't know what SE will choose, but hopefully a solution can be found. In my personal
opinion theres nothing wrong with a little competition, but at this scale, its just more
frustrating than anything.

[Zarzak]

-There is 0 difficulty involved in killing a hunt target.

-The world is tiny. Even the biggest baddest notorious monsters are at max a 2 minute run from anyone anywhere at anytime in the game, unless you're in a duty thanks to tiny zones and teleporting.

-The zones are full of fluff. None of the surrounding monsters pose any threat.

-Notorious monsters are discovered MOMENTS after spawning. This takes away from the whole magic of stumbling upon a notorious monster.

It's nice they listened to the community when we asked for notorious monsters, but it just doesn't really seem to fit.

All valid points no argument but for the bolded section..

They didn't. NMs (or named as they are referred to in other MMOs) are things you log in that day saying "I'm going to camp Baron Von Phatlewts and get his awesome Earring of Oblivion" Usually spawned by killing placeholder mobs but sometimes just a rare spawn you wait for.

Hunts have none of this. One doesn't drop something the other doesn't. They spawn randomly (with the exception of S ranks.. which if sands/oils were removed from vendors would be great additions to the game) so your not camping anything. And they are giant clusterfucks because again... They aren't something you camp.