Limit the amount of healers in a party in frontlines

[Eikko_Fenrir]

Try actually fighting within the flag stand, you would of capped it no problem if they only had like 6-7 on defense.

[Liselsia]

Limiting number of healers does nothing to address issue of their impact on frontlines. Healers will till determine flow of battle. If your healer dies, your entire army dies. If your healer is immortal, your entire team is immortal. Skill Ceiling is to great that difference between a good and a bad healer is monstrous.

It gets so bad I sometimes just stop dpsing and just watch where two giant armies spend 5 minutes doing no damage to one another. I ask myself, so whats they point ? We just waiting for one of the healers to lower their guard and burst them down ? Can this even be considered fun ?

[MentalMidgit]

Limiting number of healers does nothing to address issue of their impact on frontlines. Healers will till determine flow of battle. If your healer dies, your entire army dies. If your healer is immortal, your entire team is immortal. Skill Ceiling is to great that difference between a good and a bad healer is monstrous.

It gets so bad I sometimes just stop dpsing and just watch where two giant armies spend 5 minutes doing no damage to one another. I ask myself, so whats they point ? We just waiting for one of the healers to lower their guard and burst them down ? Can this even be considered fun ?

That's because chasing the same target around for 5 minutes straight isn't going to get you anywhere. The way teamfights work in this game could be very fun if groups were actually coordinated and a metagame developed. I come from Guild Wars 1, which arguably, had some of the best pvp ever in an MMO. The way it worked is you either got kills through pressure or through spiking. Pressure meant just gaining small advantages, like disabling a skill or hitting a key interrupt which caused the enemy healers to just not be able to keep up with the damage anymore. Spiking was everybody converging on one target, doing enough damage to kill, all in about 1-2 seconds.

It made for very fun game play as healers weren't just kiting melee and spamming heals anymore. They were watching the enemy melee, seeing which target they were running towards and trying to prepare for the spike. This was done either through pre prots, shutting down the enemy damage or just relying on reflexes to hit that key infuse. If you watch this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFWvdyCk1Uo) you will get a better sense of what I'm talking about. You'll see that they are constantly spiking different targets, not just healers, in order to keep the enemy guessing or just to take pressure of off their own healers. What I see in FFXIV is people just continuously training on the same target for 5 minutes straight. This makes it very easy to just fire off heals without thought.

Another issue is their is no real shut down in this game. Guild Wars had the mesmer and to some extent, the ranger. The mesmer was able to shut down the other team through skills like debuffs that caused the next spell cast to have a longer recharge or make melee miss 50% of the time. They also had just straight interupts which could be key in stopping that life saving heal. It made for a very reactive and fun mechanic where casters were cancelling skills half way through the cast to try to draw out the mesmer's interrupt. It was a very intricate dance that made skilled players able to stand out from the crowd and it was a way to gain small advantages that led to winning a fight.

Having no reliable shut down in this game is part of the reason I think that people are very frustrated with the state of healers. I believe that a class like that and a little coordination between groups could go a long way in this game.

[Pibz]

This needs to be addressed asap, its the biggest balance flaw by far.
Anyone who PvPed in wolve's den saw this coming miles away when they announced no party restrictions, good healers were able to survive the dps from 3 people for extended periods of time, the healing done just greatly outweighs the damage people are able to do.
I was, however, expecting counter measures to this but disappointingly they didn't even bother to limit the number of regen/medica 2 buffs you can have on you in PvP...

[Rin23]

I totally agree with you Mental Midgit
The gameplay of gw1 was great. And most of the players were PVP players.
FF players are 3/4 PVE and only focus the healer...

[Vittorino]

Title says it all, its ridiculous, how hard it can be to remove 3, let alone 4 healers from sitting on base, short of mage lb 2 (which healers are good at dodging if they are on the same page thanks to esuna) it can prove pretty hard to remove them. with 3 back to back to back 4 digit criticals.

For example, we managed to clean up the base of the dps, however we couldnt kill any of the healers, they literally (4 of them) just stood on the cap point with 12 people beating on them. I totaled 180k damage that fight, and not once were the healer cleared of manors ><. All they have to do is simply medica 2 each other for an obnoxious stacking regen (4 digit regen) and if one gets super low? the one scholar in the group simply blows their lustrates. its silly.

We had the base but never could we kill the healers, they eventually took it back.

Here's an Idea, stop being bad...

[Xisin]

Here's an Idea, stop being bad...

lol... pretty clever to put on tank gear before posting that.

This needs to be addressed asap, its the biggest balance flaw by far.
Anyone who PvPed in wolve's den saw this coming miles away when they announced no party restrictions, good healers were able to survive the dps from 3 people for extended periods of time, the healing done just greatly outweighs the damage people are able to do.
I was, however, expecting counter measures to this but disappointingly they didn't even bother to limit the number of regen/medica 2 buffs you can have on you in PvP...

This is the whole point, Both healers currently have such crazy benefits to playing, don’t worry I kill plenty and win plenty of games, however pay attention to any group that gets 3+ healers in your next game, they usually do win their base fight, or for that matter most of any fight/objective matters that break out.

The amount of healing and damage that healers can do is quite astonishing, pay especially close attention to scholars bane makes them quite good at overall dps and ruin 2 gives them a reliable interrupt. Even whms who have established a good amount of safety have their holy. This type of gameplay is anti-fun, and fairly overpowered. If your healer just dies to a couple of dps then they aren’t very good healers, as a poster above me said, good healers in the wolves den could handle 3 people wailing on them while they healed themselves, and kited, and this is JUST ONE healer, imagine that same healer with another healer power healing him or even having another scholars fairy help him out. Vitto, maybe if you didn’t win trade that nice armor of yours you’d know this. Sleep was a good fix to this since communicating with 3 others wasn’t an impossible feat (and even then they still woke them up sometimes -.-) Sleep was nerfed this patch as well. (cc in general was)

Fluid aura kills are cool however and I like that they have those.


Folks in this thread then ask me why I don’t go cap others points, well I do it’s how I win, however, they can simply make the decision to be elsewhere also, and the whole point is wherever this healer party happens to be they have the advantage, and if you allocate more than 8 to a group of 8, then somewhere on the map resources are thinner as result. This means that a healer group (3 or more particularly SCH SCH WHM) is more powerful then any other composition currently, this can be fixed in a number of ways be it through nerfs, party set up or what have you.

[Vittorino]

put on tank? No I just have a ray of class that are geared to choose from. I'm a Healer Full BiS, regardless of the situation. If you stack healers you lack dps. it's pretty simple. If you can't kill them. leave them be; take another Post. It's called a tactical approach.
I don't need to masquerade and hide my class. it's out in the open

Get good, stop complaining and work around it instead of crying.

Cheers.

[Xisin]

put on tank? No I just have a ray of class that are geared to choose from. I'm a Healer Full BiS, regardless of the situation. If you stack healers you lack dps. it's pretty simple. If you can't kill them. leave them be; take another Post. It's called a tactical approach.
I don't need to masquerade and hide my class. it's out in the open

Get good, stop complaining and work around it instead of crying.

Cheers.

You obviously can't read. Healers by themselves are not overpowered. It is a certain composition, which I've listed and have listed the tactical drawbacks and advantages of each. This being a pvp type of event, a metagame will eventually start to take form, and with how this is trending this is certaintly going to be it. Usually in any serious pvp game such a league, dota, or any fighting game, once a meta becomes cemented its usually the developer that ends up breaking it - not the player. You can protect your power as much as you want though.For the record I win far, far more than I lose. You're only argument is herp derp get gud, I havent even seen you cite a proper case.

All I'm saying is that the numbers for healers en masses doesnt seem to have been porperly balanced. - mainly hots, stacking regens, medicas, and fairies... aside from that lustrates. (hai cleric stance schs) the theme in all these? cc doesnt do much against them the regens are instant and tick once applied + they stack, lustrates are instant and while the medica does take a casting time its not hard to get off. Normal cures mustbe super easy to get off because as a blm with a gcd of 2.29 I have little issues in casting... Healers have a casting time on cure at about 1.87... thats super easy to get off under pressure.

I've covered the whole go elsewhere approach when then just becomes a game of numbers that you won't win between two equally skilled teams (you know the only theoretical way to accurately approach balance - between equal players.) In a discussion of balance - outplay doesnt work since both players - or teams will know what to do.

[Sen_Terrechant]

TIL: That people throw their faces against a team with 3 healers, and expect to win when they have 1 or 0.

Healers are not overpowered, multiple healers is not overpowered. People simply havent learned to actually PvP. Many of the people posting here im 95% sure are PvPing for the first time ever, or have only ever casually PvPed in other games.

The only issue with multiple healer parties is this: The uncordinated masses get rolled over by it because they cant focus DPS, they cant pressure. They all choose seperate targets and then get mad when it dosent die, then they take it to the forums and bitch for nerfs.

This games PvP is actually pretty decent, which suprised me because it was a mostly PvE game.