SE, Stop promoting AFK gameplay.

[Gallus]

/sitting for the next 30 hours in 27 fates waiting for them to pop from you 9 animus books is NOT fun.
Running around in circles/afking with an app radar is NOT fun.

Why do you insist on making the players NOT play this game in order to acquire SIGNIFICANT stuff?

There are over 15 level 50 dungeons, all of them with arguably fun mechanics, 5 primals, mog, frontlines... but the arguably most valuable stuff you can obtain in this game is via killing level 5 sprites for the next 100 hours (aka atma grind) and afking in a 8 man party with an app radar?

The next relic upgrade gonna be dance the manderville 100 hours in each area?

[HulveinBlitz]

Actually.. with frontlines, hunts, etc.

Myth is here in abundance. I've seen people with the alexandrite to complete Novus, but no gil for materia (lol).

Also, like you said, there is other things to do. You do not need to sit there for hours, on hours. Thats an optional choice. Yeah, its tedious. But really, its not AFK gameplay.

[Gallus]

And what do you get from playing frontlines? PVP exp...for what? PVP marks...for what? To buy useless PVP gear that doesn't work in frontlines? Because if you think you are going to do anything useful with it in the wolves den you are delusional, unless you want to spend 30 minutes waiting for each queue. 4v4 is absolutely dead. So yeah, do as much frontlines as you want, but its rewards do not net you highest tier items. As for myth, I never complained about it, doing dungeons/primals/ raids is playing the game, completing books is arguably playing the game, doing low level dungeons is arguably playing the game. Killing level 5 toads for the next 100 hours with a 2 skill rotation is NOT playing the game. /Sitting in coerthas shouting LFG NAUL while you watch some series is NOT playing the game. And this comes from someone who has a Novus and an Animus, but it keeps killing me how highest tier rewards outside the hardest content ALWAYS have to do with AFK PLAYING.

[Hocchi]

You're not forced to stay there and wait, you chose to stay there and wait.
Your problem.

[Sapphic]

And what do you get from playing frontlines?

I get fun from it. That's why I do Frontlines.

I know, shocking aint it?!

I didn't find Wolves den fun, even with having rewards. You know what? I didn't do it after a few games and saw I didn't like it.

[Gallus]

I get fun from it. That's why I do Frontlines.

I know, shocking aint it?!

Beautfiul argument, except it's a bit overused and does not match the reality. There's a great incentive when you are playing an MMO to obtain high end game gear, the incentive is there, if you completely remove it, people don't care. How many Brutal ScOB threads have you seen? Is it because it's better designed than anything else? Probably it has some flaws/bugs or w/e, but guess what? People don't care...because you get nothing. You can either accept the reality, or live in your own cloud where you keep repeating yourself that you do things just because they are so fun and they have nothing to do with the reward behind them. Sad truth is, no one's doing hunts because it's fun, 99% of the people do them because they are an easy way to obtain sands and oil, end of the story.

[Mcshiggs]

Beautfiul argument, except it's a bit overused and does not match the reality. There's a great incentive when you are playing an MMO to obtain high end game gear, the incentive is there, if you completely remove it, people don't care. How many Brutal ScOB threads have you seen? Is it because it's better designed than anything else? Probably it has some flaws/bugs or w/e, but guess what? People don't care...because you get nothing. You can either accept the reality, or live in your own cloud where you keep repeating yourself that you do things just because they are so fun and they have nothing to do with the reward behind them. Sad truth is, no one's doing hunts because it's fun, 99% of the people do them because they are an easy way to obtain sands and oil, end of the story.

So if you don't play the game for fun, why do you play it?

[Divinemight]

Beautfiul argument.

Let's see, what am I getting from Frontline?

1. Myth Tome and Solidery Tome
2. PvP exp for more PvP actions (Main motivation) and PvP gears (Secondary motivation). Dont tell me PvP gear is useless, I can either cosplay or save it for future once they installed ladder system for Wolf's Den
3. Friendships if you have joined a PvP linkshell. You getting to know more people. Social aspec is also crucial in MMO gaming.
4. Fun (Most important factor)

I get much more from Frontline than you can imagine. You wait for 5 mins on top during prime time to que in a match and you are enjoying yourself for 15 mins match. I am getting Myth tomes more than I need (already exchanged 2 full sets: WAR and BLM) while I am having fun. Keep whinning.

[Sapphic]

Beautfiul argument, except it's a bit overused and does not match the reality.

PvE and PvP are two totally different things. I have PvE for gear progression, PvP for competition against other living players. I want to win knowing I out played the other, not because my gear or their gear was better. I've PvPd in many games where gear had no real significance in the outcome. DaoC, pve gear was practically given as it was that easy to obtain and the PvP is still seen as one of, if not THE, best MMO PvP.

Pre WoW PvP gear didn't exist, then comes WoWs PvP gear progression and everyone expects it. Yet PvP flourished just fine without it before.

[Yahavage]

If it's not fun.... don't do it?

I got up to my third.. maybe 4th book on my atma weapon, haven't bothered with it any more as I also find camping FATEs tedious. I'm not doing hunts while the entie server is still p*ssing in their pants over every other pop.

Still got plenty to do though :/