The Striking Tree versus Turn 2

[JTribal]

I think what he's talking about is using Titan-egi as a "third tank", so you have now three entities on the field at different places, each one tanking one of King Mog, Ruffletuft, or Whiskerwall. (Probably would want Titan-egi on one of the tank moogles, since it would take less damage from Sifting Mogdark and Sifting Moglight.)

Thanks, that's kind of what I was getting at. PS if you ever try Titan Egi method in Mog Ex, I probably wouldn't put egi on anything but KM, the tanks' hate will reset during periods of the fight and the Egi cannot get it back in time. Also, the Egi would probably accidentally kill one of the mogs too soon if the Summoner isn't paying attention.

10% is kind of cazy, thanks for the clarification.

[Brine_Gildchaff]

If this was such a huge issue, why did they not patch Titan Egi when people started using him to tank King Mog?

The difference is, Titan-egi takes 10% of literally ALL damage dealt by Ramuh, because literally everything Ramuh does is an AoE strike. In particular, Ramuh has a mechanic that is intended to deal an IK to the tank unless the tank follows a specific mechanic (i.e. grab three orbs and obtain the Surge Protection status effect), but this IK is... also AoE damage, so Titan-egi gets more badly hurt by Ifrit farting than Ramuh EX's IK mechanic. Using a Titan-egi on the King Mog fight is a much, much more difficult strategy because Titan-egi still takes normal damage from most of the stuff the King does. (Even if you use Titan-egi to tank Whiskerwall or Ruffletuft, he'll still be taking regular damage from most of the things they do except those Dark Resist Down and Light Resist Down attacks.)



tl;dr Using Titan-egi on Ramuh EX lets you excise tanks entirely from the party and makes the fight -easier- in the process. It makes tanks undesirable. Using Titan-egi on Mog EX still requires tanks in the party and is still an arguably more difficult mechanic. Far from making anyone undesirable, it makes summoners a more desirable member for that fight.

[BloodPact]

For the people saying it's not the same because Ramuh EX gave parties the ability to completely exclude a role. Behold: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoGd-wMF3Qo

[Ryel]

The Irony in this thread is palpable...

I'm not a proponent of either side of this as i both play tank and play routinely with friends who are tanks so i always go with them regardless.

However,

The majority of the arguments being used against Titan-Egi tanking are near identical to the ones that were presented during the Turn 2 enrage debate.

Blatant aversion to mechanics?

Lets not forget that T2 enrage didn't remove the mechanics of just a SINGLE job from the fight.

It negated the design of the turn in it's entirety.

By doing enrage you no longer had to pick and choose what moves to remove from ADS (Ballast, Firestorm, etc) based on your party composition, nor did you have to plan for resistances (mage heavy party vs ranged or melee heavy) you no longer had to learn or dodge ANY mechanics in the fight, and you no longer had to pass Allagan Rot, you sat there either over geared or stacked healers and turned the fight into a glorified striking dummy.

And i guess we forgot the large number of threads started by tanks being left out of the fight due to this very issue seeing as you only need 1 for enrage.

The general forum response to those threads and threads by melee DPS who were getting left out of other endgame fights due to job advantages (BRD, BLM, SMN) was basically "Make a Party Finder for it then"

While i can agree that Titan-Egi tanking most likely wasn't intended for this (btw he can tank almost all the other Ex Primals with a decent group) I find the decision to amend this so suddenly quite odd given the precedent was far worse and basically hand waved by the devs as "player creativity"

[Kalam]

T2 was discovered / discussed late into Coil. The pet tank was found out and fixed immediately. Mainly for the reason of not excluding players. Players will always choose the easiest route to rewards. Why take a tank to Ramuh if you didn't have to? You wouldn't.

[lordparanoia]

T2 0click mode was totally e completely brainless. White Mages spammed Medica, Bards Had Ballad Up, Scholar used Succor / Wishpering Dawn. Dps just did their rotations. Totally No Strategy.
In Ramuh Extreme the only thing that changed was that you didn't need any tank and u lost ONE and ONLY ONE mechanic.
Honestly I don't agree with this choice. Nerfing Egis is making me think that Square Enix wants that all the Summoners use only Garuda.

[Shref]

T2 0click mode was totally e completely brainless. White Mages spammed Medica, Bards Had Ballad Up, Scholar used Succor / Wishpering Dawn. Dps just did their rotations. Totally No Strategy.
In Ramuh Extreme the only thing that changed was that you didn't need any tank and u lost ONE and ONLY ONE mechanic.
Honestly I don't agree with this choice. Nerfing Egis is making me think that Square Enix wants that all the Summoners use only Garuda.

it made it so that two classes were completely unneeded for the fight. how did you figure this was going to stand??
so if someone decided they didn't want to level a dps job, they're completely screwed out of the fight???
its not so much people taking an easy route as its people locking certain classes out of content.

[BloodPact]

it made it so that two classes were completely unneeded for the fight. how did you figure this was going to stand??
so if someone decided they didn't want to level a dps job, they're completely screwed out of the fight???
its not so much people taking an easy route as its people locking certain classes out of content.

As I just pointed in my previous post, with Titan-egi tanking Turn 2. This is not news. On top of that, excluding jobs is nothing new to this game as well. Did you forget when Garuda Extreme came out and no party anywhere would take melee because why risk a Wicked Wheel when you can 4 ranged the instance? I bet tanks didn't mind that too much as their two spots were secured back then. The selfishness shows (not attacking you, just speaking in a general, community sense).

[Codek]

As I just pointed in my previous post, with Titan-egi tanking Turn 2. This is not news. On top of that, excluding jobs is nothing new to this game as well. Did you forget when Garuda Extreme came out and no party anywhere would take melee because why risk a Wicked Wheel when you can 4 ranged the instance? I bet tanks didn't mind that too much as their two spots where secured back then. The selfishness shows (not attacking you, just speaking in a general, community sense).

Melee being excluded from Garuda was an odd issue. It was completely fabricated by the players going with a weird (and subjectively weaker) strategy of having one tank tanking two mobs. Had the groups properly learned how to have the DPS tank Chirada and manage downburst correctly, then melee dps would have been perfectly effective on that fight. I blame youtube on this one more then SE.

[Shref]

snip

the garuda example shows how fast the community flocks to the easy way out on fights, even when the fights aren't hard. garuda ex is still easy and often faster with melee, most melees would learn it relatively quick. T2 rot is laughably easy-people just refuse to do it even though its twice as fast. its a large part of why there's people who still can't do titan ex. they give themselves an easy out at every opportunity instead of learning the fights. just because they let it fly in the past doesn't mean they will for everything.