The Striking Tree versus Turn 2

[saeedaisspecial]

I just want to make it clear that I never used either alternative strat for either fight, I just feel that this post should be made based on principals.

The changes made in the recent patch are a great show of hypocrisy by the dev team.
When Turn 2 enrage came around, there were arguments all over, with people both for and against it. Eventually the dev team said that while this strategy wasn't intended, they encouraged people thinking out of the box and would not patch it.

Now we had the Titan tank for Ramuh Extreme, and this alternative strategy was patched nigh instantly.

I feel it should be noted some clear difference in both fights:
In Turn 2, enraging removed almost eveyr mechanic, except the "enrage" itself. No tank swaps, no rot, no aoe dogdging, no silences. It was for all intents and purposes, a loot pinata that required some healing.
In Ramuh, Egis are following the same rules they have everywhere else, the have always had naturally high magic defence in every encounter. This can't really be considered a bug, because if it was Egis themselves would be fundamentally bugged from the get-go. the rest of the mehcanics present in the fight are all still there, and by no means is it easy.

What happened to encouraging things like this? What is the difference between Turn 2, and The Striking Tree? If anything, Turn 2 enrage was a bigger exploit than Titan tanking yet it was allowed.

Why?

[Clavaat]

He was taking exceptionally low damage during the fight. T2 wasn't taking exceptionally high damage. That's the difference.

[saeedaisspecial]

He was taking exceptionally low damage during the fight. T2 wasn't taking exceptionally high damage. That's the difference.

One fight left almost every intended mechanic in the fight. The other completely removed all but one mechanic, the difference is huge.
Turn 2 enrage made the fight far easier, as noted by all the clears that suddenly happened. I can't think of many groups I heard of that had trouble outhealing Turn 2 enrage when people ran three healers. I often heard people calling ADS a "loot pinata".
In Ramuh, you still had to deal with the Balls, you still had to shock people to break terror, you still had to break the teathers, 90% of the mechanics are still there. The difficulty of the fight is still far higher than Turn 2 enrage. Even if the tank damage is lower, the rest of the raid damage and raid mechanics are still far, far higher.

[skaterger]

Because in the case of Ramuh Ex, one entire role (tank) is being locked out of the content. Players always choose the path of least resistance, and once a strat is established (t2 enrage), no party will use any other method. This is unfair for players who only have tank as a main job and no other sub class.

That is the way I see it.

[Lithera]

Turn 2 didn't remove a role entirely from the encounter. Just made it an easy solo tank. That and it showed up late in Coil 1s cycle as only geared groups could manage it reliably. Ramuh exploit showed up immediately and eliminated both tanks. Johnny PLD shouldn't be expected to grind a new role because "NO TANKS ALLOWED". Also if this continued we'd end up with a nightmare once Ramuh EX became solo DFable with no one knowing what to do with two tanks and no SMN.

[Hulan]

There is a fundamental difference between a clever strategy that employs the mechanics of the game as they are meant to be and one that what predicated on unintended effects. The wording of the fix implies to me that this was a genuine bug, and Titan-egi was never intended to take so little damage in this fight in particular. The dev team may have not predicted the Turn 2 Enrage strategy, but the mechanics are functioning exactly as intended. In this case though, mechanics were not functioning as intended and pets were taking much less damage than they should have been.

[Edli]

He was taking exceptionally low damage during the fight. T2 wasn't taking exceptionally high damage. That's the difference.

Exactly. Summons take ridiculously low dmg from magic attacks but that's because of AoEs. A summon cannot avoid stuff like plumes and landslides so the solution was to make them almost immune to those attacks.

That resulted on Titan being much better than a well geared tank on Ramuh since Ramuh does only magic attacks.

[Clavaat]

One fight left almost every intended mechanic in the fight. The other completely removed all but one mechanic, the difference is huge.
Turn 2 enrage made the fight far easier, as noted by all the clears that suddenly happened. I can't think of a single group I heard of that had trouble outhealing Turn 2 enrage when people ran three healers.

I'm not talking about just his orb mechanic, it said the pets were taking exceptionally low damage. Which I would assume means, the entire fight. That would be like T2, everyone deals extra damage for no reason other than it being a bug.

[stoxastic]

Turn 2 required people to be overgear for the content, and it took longer to complete as opposed to doing it the real way.

No tank Ramuh Ex made the fight easier than the intended method. It not only made orb collection trivial, but also made the dps check way easier to satisfy.

[saeedaisspecial]

There is a fundamental difference between a clever strategy that employs the mechanics of the game as they are meant to be and one that what predicated on unintended effects. The wording of the fix implies to me that this was a genuine bug, and Titan-egi was never intended to take so little damage in this fight in particular. The dev team may have not predicted the Turn 2 Enrage strategy, but the mechanics are functioning exactly as intended. In this case though, mechanics were not functioning as intended and pets were taking much less damage than they should have been.

This, I would argue is false. Since pets have always taken naturally low damage from magical AoEs, in every single encounter in the game. The pets in Ramuh Extreme are following the same mechanics they have in every other encounter. If this is to be considered a bug, then so should their naturally high magic resistance in every other fight.