Tam-Tara Deepcroft and Edda

[Tenkuu]

From the point of view of a manipulative voidsent trying to get a poor girl weighed down by loss and a guilty conscience, you don't have to worry about aptitude. Seems to be that deals with the void aren't the hard part you just need the right way in. Perceived flaws or failings seem common. (Guilt for Edda, Vanity for Amadine, Proof of Worth for Thancred and his Ascian problem, not the same, but similar) As for follow-through, making her believe that Avere would come back if she just followed these steps. Lead her gently down the slippery slope under the guise of a "miracle", slowly warp her perceptions of right and wrong.

Sorry to slightly necro this, but... I'm so glad you brought up Thancred and Lahabrea. Thancred's situation was the perfect example of good intentions gone horribly wrong, while at the same time being the only example of someone we actually saved from involvement with voidsent. I guess Ascians can technically be referred to as Voidsent, right?

[CyberForte]

Sorry to slightly necro this, but... I'm so glad you brought up Thancred and Lahabrea. Thancred's situation was the perfect example of good intentions gone horribly wrong, while at the same time being the only example of someone we actually saved from involvement with voidsent. I guess Ascians can technically be referred to as voidsent, right?

Necromancy seems appropriate in this particular thread. =P

But I don't think we can technically refer to the Ascians as anything except semi-immortal aetherial beings at this point. They're willing to draw on the void or prompt others to--Amandine being the prime example here--but unless there's some lore bit I'm missing, we have no confirmation that they themselves have any specific relationship to it, much less that they're from it. Indeed, the dialog before fighting Ascian Prime in Aetherochemical Research Facility suggests that they were more likely echo-users originally who learned to transcend their mortality through it, considering they seem to be functionally identical to the Sahagain priest who survived using the Echo, even down to the detail of being consumed by a primal.

More on topic, I personally would be more wont to suspect Ascian involvement in Edda's descent into madness. They have been known to lead others into voidsent territory, as demonstrated by Amandine, and it would make more sense for an Ascian to have manipulated her than a voidsent given that, unlikely Amandine or Cocobusi (from Thaurmaturge quests) she was never possessed herself. Most of those who make such details end up possessed by/becoming Voidsent, but an Ascian could much more easily appear benevolent while leading her down the path to ruin. Indeed, suggesting that she could achieve what she wanted--Avere's ressurection--by such dark means has a lot of the hallmarks of Ascian involvement, if we consider the story of Bahamut's creation as a primal, or the way that Lahabrea tempted the Ala Mhigans to summon Rhalgr. You could even make an argument that Lahabrea or one of his disciples did it particularly to hurt us, revenge for defeating him at Praetorium.

[PArcher]

More on topic, I personally would be more wont to suspect Ascian involvement in Edda's descent into madness. They have been known to lead others into voidsent territory, as demonstrated by Amandine, and it would make more sense for an Ascian to have manipulated her than a voidsent given that, unlikely Amandine or Cocobusi (from Thaurmaturge quests) she was never possessed herself. Most of those who make such details end up possessed by/becoming Voidsent, but an Ascian could much more easily appear benevolent while leading her down the path to ruin. Indeed, suggesting that she could achieve what she wanted--Avere's ressurection--by such dark means has a lot of the hallmarks of Ascian involvement, if we consider the story of Bahamut's creation as a primal, or the way that Lahabrea tempted the Ala Mhigans to summon Rhalgr. You could even make an argument that Lahabrea or one of his disciples did it particularly to hurt us, revenge for defeating him at Praetorium.

My only issue with this theory is, what have they to gain? Sure, "Kill the WoL" is always there, but the Ascians don't seem to do anything just because, or if failure is certain; there's always some deep purpose (and high chance of success) to it. Edda wasn't exactly a powerful conjurer in the first place, and there's only so much a voidsent can do to enhance your power (especially if you don't have much to begin with), so if there was Ascian involvement, I would take it as a "nothing better to do" or "What-if?" side-project rather than anything that would actually lead to something.

I'm a fan of her coming across a Voidsent that was more than happy to help her "resurrect" her love.

[Tenkuu]

But I don't think we can technically refer to the Ascians as anything except semi-immortal aetherial beings at this point. They're willing to draw on the void or prompt others to--Amandine being the prime example here--but unless there's some lore bit I'm missing, we have no confirmation that they themselves have any specific relationship to it, much less that they're from it. Indeed, the dialog before fighting Ascian Prime in Aetherochemical Research Facility suggests that they were more likely echo-users originally who learned to transcend their mortality through it, considering they seem to be functionally identical to the Sahagain priest who survived using the Echo, even down to the detail of being consumed by a primal.

Well, I don't know exactly what it means, but what stands out to me is the fact that Nabriales called both Lahabrea and Elidibus as being the only two Ascians to be "of this world". Is this implied to mean that they are the only ones who started out as mortals or something else entirely? Also, there is the fact that their abilities seem to mimic what Voidsent such as Ahriman and their relatives can do. You could argue that it's Black Mages taken to the extreme, but even the Black Mages we know (and even ourselves if we take up Black Mage as a job) are not that powerful, and either way, the Black Mages draw their abilities from the Void, right?

More on topic, I personally would be more wont to suspect Ascian involvement in Edda's descent into madness. They have been known to lead others into voidsent territory, as demonstrated by Amandine, and it would make more sense for an Ascian to have manipulated her than a voidsent given that, unlikely Amandine or Cocobusi (from Thaurmaturge quests) she was never possessed herself. Most of those who make such details end up possessed by/becoming Voidsent, but an Ascian could much more easily appear benevolent while leading her down the path to ruin. Indeed, suggesting that she could achieve what she wanted--Avere's ressurection--by such dark means has a lot of the hallmarks of Ascian involvement, if we consider the story of Bahamut's creation as a primal, or the way that Lahabrea tempted the Ala Mhigans to summon Rhalgr. You could even make an argument that Lahabrea or one of his disciples did it particularly to hurt us, revenge for defeating him at Praetorium.

I would be very tempted to agree with you there, except that unlike with Lady Amandine, Thancred and the Summoner quests in general, not a single Ascian shows up to either taunt you, challenge you or rail at you, nor is Edda's ordeal ever brought up as a victory of theirs even in another conversation with an Ascian. There is also the fact that given Edda's fairly detailed journal entries, we are given to believe that she took the initiative for the Avere project all on her own, as no mention is ever made by her of any strange black-cloaked men approaching her and making promises to her. Also, no offense to Edda, but she's probably far too small-time for the Ascians, not to mention that she was supposedly terrible at magic.

[Dualblade]

snip

Just for the last point, but for someone that was supposedly terrible at magic, she certainly seemed to pull off some powerful magic during the battle against Averman. Of course this could just be that her decsent into insanity coincided with her really beefing up her magic training.

[myahele]

What about the priest of dalamud?

Weren't they in tam tara deepcroft to revive Galvanth? They were also holed up in amdapor keep.

Maybe she had some ddealings with them? Though she probably was so grief stricken that she surrendered herself to darkness.

[Phyllo]

No wait, i heard chicken can still run after being beheaded, maybe it would have worked :3

[Phyllo]

Avere's abusiveness is just before you enter sastasha, the whole party is standing there, Edda completely exhausted from running to them with the few options she could have bought, avere saying that she is only good for her wallet and the two others making fun of her.

Later Liavinne joins the scions and you can talk to her a few times, some time before the garlean raid on the waking sands, she tells you that the reason she was so harsh toward Edda was because she was jealous due to her unrequited feelings for avere.

Paiyo reiyo also tells you that he was using Edda as a way to get rid of his frustrations, not able to find a powerful party nor become powerful himself and always regretted that he did such things.

Also the talking with Liavinne reveals that avere wasn't always a douche, especially after meeting you (like many other people in eorzea, he becomes a good guy witnessing your sheer awesomeness, cuz you're just that awesome after all, godslayer and all xD)

So no avere was not cheating on Edda but wasn't the best lover either.

[Foestriker]

And if Liavinne's dialogue while she was at the waking sands is any indication he was also cheating on her with Liavinne.

she tells you that the reason she was so harsh toward Edda was because she was jealous due to her unrequited feelings for avere.

Her dialog prior to meeting the Sylphs:

Liavinne: Once upon a time, I aspired to make my name as an adventurer. It all came crashing down the fateful day when I lost the man who led my party-the man who had won my heart.
If I could not protect my love, how could I hope to protect my realm? I sunk into the depths of despair.
Pathetic, is it not? Others may have come to join some great cause, while I am here only because I have nowhere else to go.

It can be seen as ambiguous as to whether or not the love between Liavinne and Avere was unrequited or not, but I'd say it leans more on the side of that they were cheating.

[Morningstar1337]

So a satire of bad party behavior turns turns into a tradegy where one member goes insane two membes are dead and one is insane and dead? Maybe SE hates the toxic players as much as we do.