Things that need to change for the better

[Rogue]

being a close range DD fundamentally puts them at risk of AOE's

and while they are running away from a mob they arent doing any damage

i think my argument is a valid one

[MeowyWowie]

I don't run away, and still avoid AoE. Your argument is no longer valid

[Raze]

dude dont explain it to me,

explain it to all the people that want archer parties for their ogre runs

Why would I talk to someone dumb unless I had to? Can't you explain it for me? You seem... smart... enough!

[Rogue]

you completely missed my point

[Mihana]

All I'm gonna say in this thread is that at first I was totally against the MP costs. I still am, sort of... But it's brought alot more interest to my love of playing a healing class. And if you have a skilled tank you can really get going! Even if my CON is only 30 I was able to manage my MP pool effectively, including hate by using Spiritbind and Soughspeak (sp?) while curing only as needed. I've got a bit of work to do, yes... But I think overall if you pay far more attention it's very possible to survive under these new conditions.

But I agree that MP costs should be slightly lowered, maybe by 1/4th to 1/3rd of what they are now, hate management I do believe is still being tweaked. So expect this to be improved upon likely by 1.19 patch. As for the R45 dungeon, I can't offer any info on this since I haven't tried it yet. I'm a little hesitant to since hearing how much trouble people have. But give it time maybe a week to month after it's been out and it'll get easier. One thing to remember is they did drastic changes to the combat engine and tweaked our MP costs and hate all in the same patch as these instanced raids were introduced. So we have to learn the battle style all over again and in the end it sort of weeds out the skilled players from the ones who just spammed attacks and grew lazy.

[Seirra_Lanzce]

All I'm gonna say in this thread is that at first I was totally against the MP costs. I still am, sort of... But it's brought alot more interest to my love of playing a healing class. And if you have a skilled tank you can really get going! Even if my CON is only 30 I was able to manage my MP pool effectively, including hate by using Spiritbind and Soughspeak (sp?) while curing only as needed. I've got a bit of work to do, yes... But I think overall if you pay far more attention it's very possible to survive under these new conditions.

But I agree that MP costs should be slightly lowered, maybe by 1/4th to 1/3rd of what they are now, hate management I do believe is still being tweaked. So expect this to be improved upon likely by 1.19 patch. As for the R45 dungeon, I can't offer any info on this since I haven't tried it yet. I'm a little hesitant to since hearing how much trouble people have. But give it time maybe a week to month after it's been out and it'll get easier. One thing to remember is they did drastic changes to the combat engine and tweaked our MP costs and hate all in the same patch as these instanced raids were introduced. So we have to learn the battle style all over again and in the end it sort of weeds out the skilled players from the ones who just spammed attacks and grew lazy.

This what OP should have posted instead of bitching about the patch. Think before post.

[Physic]

I don't run away, and still avoid AoE. Your argument is no longer valid

what you are saying is true for this aoe, but there are some aoes that just do a straight up circle, i havent tested if you can stun every one of them with WS, but i somehow doubt it. I do know for a fact some monsters have aoe special status effects in a circle that you cant interupt with WS, so archer still has the advantage overall with highest dps, and highest ability to avoid non hate damage, not only that but they also have the highest hate control, and skills that lower hate, so they can dps more than other classes without pulling hate.

It still has the advantage in practically every respect of what a DD needs to be good.

probably still highest dps
highest threshold for dmg to turn the monster
most control over hate, (no AA, can completely stop attacking at anytime)
least likely to get hit by skills that some one without hate gets.
and most likely to be able to run away without dying (ranged attack shadow and quickstride combined with no stopping for weapon drawing/put away anymore)

if you think about what a DD needs, rng still got it all.

[Mortikhan]

My LS mates and I went through this last night for the first couple times. Was frustrating at first and needed to make some adjustments. I am not really the "avoid a fight and kite" type but we needed to in certain areas. Had somewhat the same result as Dubont with the Ogre though. The bogies were teleporting to the inner and outer rings constantly and tagging mages for 500+ from each one. It looks like a fight of positioning more than anything else (not really big on that either, reminds me of the Diablo fight from FFXI). I saw some indentations on the walls of the room so perhaps those will be safe havens for the mages not sure but we will definitely work on it more. We learned a lot from it overall and I thought the biggest factor was working against the clock. Our party set was CON THAUM GLADX2 PUG LNC ARCHX2. Was complete chaos the first time around but second was better and we reached the Ogre with far more time. We will see how it goes next time around.

[Santrale]

I like some of the changes the patch has brought. I thought that SE would develop the horrific co-dependent/dependent relationship you had to have with people in FFXI. So far when it comes to just getting SP, it seems okay at the moment. I think they need to take the limit of leves because it's not fair that party players can spam instances all day. I have heard several people whine for months about new content. The only real new content I have seen is the company quests stories. Party players want to have everyone in a party, and make solo success nothing. Thing is, it has nothing to do with being in a bubble as one of the miqo players on here stated. On XI I enjoyed playing with my friends, I also helped anyone and everyone I could. In the end I got plain used alot... WoW was the same but atleast they weren't smiling at you kissing up and being fake so they could get the next two days of your time to help them do AF quests or some other insane task. You had a choice if you wanted to associate with someone there. Yeah, people in WoW were pricks don't get me wrong, but at least they were honest. I like the idea of the instanced raids, I don't like the idea of someone telling me I need to level up 5 other classes or so to do the ONE ONLY class I am interested in at this time properly. It's time consuming, and not everyone has time to sit on a game and do nothing else forever. A young man with cancer once told me "MMORPGs are a life style" I felt horrible but I had to call him out and say "Just because people aren't bed ridden and can do nothing else doesn't mean they should have to miss out too." This isn't content, it's the grind. I wonder if it made the sick young man feel superior to get to act like he's supreme in a game only but probably not real life. They'd say sometimes in XI, "This gear is a sign of prestige" Okay... the second dumbest thing I've ever heard an MMORPGer say. To those who had the gear that could take 6 months or a year to get... When was the last time you got out of your REAL bubble.. I myself am disabled and don't get out much, but it doesn't mean I want this game system to be geared toward people who haven't even been on a date in the past 6 months or more! They need to either make all the effort you put into getting something worth it, or make it so solo players have their gear/SP opportunities too beyond having to shout or play a highly desired job they don't like to get a party to obtain this same goal. Yeah, don't take the grind away from those who want to party play, but don't give them the upper hand. In XI I hated the adventures of shouting for help to see prishe and alma.. that wasn't a story.. that was pain, and not cause of the CSes being so long.. but the time between them being longer. Shout for a job to form a party to enjoy something so simple as the story? I'd see people on the job we needed decked to the teeth.. they sit there all day, I know they weren't afk cause they'd stir a bit or look at my character when I examined them. If you sent them a tell it was "1mil and I'll help" or something else stupid. These idiots had gotten all the great mighty gear and had NOTHING to do anymore... so they took to sitting around and belittling anyone who had a real life in the real world, and couldn't have all they did. I know this is a "Wall of text" but it's not meant to insult people... it's meant to maybe see the other side too. Sorry if this post is too long for some of the less literate ones to sit through and not get angry about it's length. But I think to enjoy the game they need to make rewards for soloing be equal to party play, that way I can choose to just be with a few friends, instead of trying to be nice to some jerk so I can get somewhere in a game. Yeah it's fun to talk about how big and bad you are cause you have spent like 5 years of your life to get all the jobs up and deck them all out... go tell someone in the real world, the world people actually live in, they'll either laugh at you or they're not going to see it as some great accomplishment.. in the end when an MMO dies and the servers finally come down... you had nothing... nothing but an eternal grind, and nothing to show for it in the end but time spent doing something other than maybe making friends in your town or going to college and actually FOCUSING on it.. or any other true accomplishment you could have done in that time.

[Seirra_Lanzce]

I like some of the changes the patch has brought. I thought that SE would develop the horrific co-dependent/dependent relationship you had to have with people in FFXI. So far when it comes to just getting SP, it seems okay at the moment. I think they need to take the limit of leves because it's not fair that party players can spam instances all day. I have heard several people whine for months about new content. The only real new content I have seen is the company quests stories. Party players want to have everyone in a party, and make solo success nothing. Thing is, it has nothing to do with being in a bubble as one of the miqo players on here stated. On XI I enjoyed playing with my friends, I also helped anyone and everyone I could. In the end I got plain used alot... WoW was the same but atleast they weren't smiling at you kissing up and being fake so they could get the next two days of your time to help them do AF quests or some other insane task. You had a choice if you wanted to associate with someone there. Yeah, people in WoW were pricks don't get me wrong, but at least they were honest. I like the idea of the instanced raids, I don't like the idea of someone telling me I need to level up 5 other classes or so to do the ONE ONLY class I am interested in at this time properly. It's time consuming, and not everyone has time to sit on a game and do nothing else forever. A young man with cancer once told me "MMORPGs are a life style" I felt horrible but I had to call him out and say "Just because people aren't bed ridden and can do nothing else doesn't mean they should have to miss out too." This isn't content, it's the grind. I wonder if it made the sick young man feel superior to get to act like he's supreme in a game only but probably not real life. They'd say sometimes in XI, "This gear is a sign of prestige" Okay... the second dumbest thing I've ever heard an MMORPGer say. To those who had the gear that could take 6 months or a year to get... When was the last time you got out of your REAL bubble.. I myself am disabled and don't get out much, but it doesn't mean I want this game system to be geared toward people who haven't even been on a date in the past 6 months or more! They need to either make all the effort you put into getting something worth it, or make it so solo players have their gear/SP opportunities too beyond having to shout or play a highly desired job they don't like to get a party to obtain this same goal. Yeah, don't take the grind away from those who want to party play, but don't give them the upper hand. In XI I hated the adventures of shouting for help to see prishe and alma.. that wasn't a story.. that was pain, and not cause of the CSes being so long.. but the time between them being longer. Shout for a job to form a party to enjoy something so simple as the story? I'd see people on the job we needed decked to the teeth.. they sit there all day, I know they weren't afk cause they'd stir a bit or look at my character when I examined them. If you sent them a tell it was "1mil and I'll help" or something else stupid. These idiots had gotten all the great mighty gear and had NOTHING to do anymore... so they took to sitting around and belittling anyone who had a real life in the real world, and couldn't have all they did. I know this is a "Wall of text" but it's not meant to insult people... it's meant to maybe see the other side too. Sorry if this post is too long for some of the less literate ones to sit through and not get angry about it's length. But I think to enjoy the game they need to make rewards for soloing be equal to party play, that way I can choose to just be with a few friends, instead of trying to be nice to some jerk so I can get somewhere in a game. Yeah it's fun to talk about how big and bad you are cause you have spent like 5 years of your life to get all the jobs up and deck them all out... go tell someone in the real world, the world people actually live in, they'll either laugh at you or they're not going to see it as some great accomplishment.. in the end when an MMO dies and the servers finally come down... you had nothing... nothing but an eternal grind, and nothing to show for it in the end but time spent doing something other than maybe making friends in your town or going to college and actually FOCUSING on it.. or any other true accomplishment you could have done in that time.

Hmm can you please break in paragraphs? is making me dizzy to even start reading it.