Things that need to change for the better

[Preypacer]

So...I take it you're one of those that thinks Pandemonium Warden was perfectly fine in FFXI? You know...the NM that only like...5% of the community had beaten? Looks like we have the same situation here. Does this mean that 95% of the players in this game are just terrible and need to quit? No. It means that you need to grow up and show some freaking respect for once. There is obviously something wrong if only a handful of people can complete this thing and even then, they had to try multiple times and had to have the perfect setup. You almost have to be a complete elitist to do the current 45 dungeon.

Have 95% of the community in XI even attempted to fight PW yet? Are 95% of the community verifiably interested in fighting PW to begin with? Of that 95% that hasn't defeated him *yet*, how many will at some point in the future, instead of giving up? I know I was never interested in fighting him. I know plenty of people who weren't either. I know others who thought it would be cool if they did, but weren't feeling "left out" of anything if they didn't.

The same thing applies to this dungeon. Are 95% of the community even at a point where they could attempt him if they wanted to? Are 95% interested in fighting him? Of that 95% how many of them simply haven't beaten him yet, but will once they've had the opportunity?

There are far too many variables involved with that 95% you speak of for you to make any kind of definitive argument based on it.

In order for a statistic like 95% of the population to have any meaning what-so-ever, you'd have to first figure out what percentage of the community even *wants* to fight and defeat the thing to begin with.

You don't know those statistics, nor could you. So, attempting to build an argument on such assumed data is pure conjecture.

Serious question for you.. Not trolling what-so-ever.

When people like MeowieWowie and others have faced the same exact mobs in the same exact location under the same exact circumstances (ie. ogre uses the same attacks, ghosts use the same attacks, etc), and have successfully defeated it, multiple times, even posting videos and screenshots of it, how can you conclude anything other than that your group is simply not doing something correctly during the fight?

Occam's Razor paraphrased: All things being equal, the simplest solution is usually the right one.

Considering this fight is the same (or equal) for all who take it on, the simplest solution as to why some are defeating it while you and others aren't, is that some are successfully executing an effective strategy, while some aren't.

If your mages are taking 1k+ damage from an attack that Meowie's mages only incur ~500 or so from, then that should raise an immediate red flag. The better question to ask, to me, is "How are your mages equipped/buffed prior to going into the fight?" There's obviously something different between his mages' setup and yours if the difference in damage is that great. That one detail could make all the difference for you.

It could be something like poor timing.

I'm gonna totally not go out on a limb here and assume that Meowie and those in his group, along with others who have successfully defeated the ogre are not super-human, possessing skills that no other mere mortal can dream of having.

They figured out a strategy that works, they've executed that strategy and they've succeeded.

If Meowie and others have done it without SE having to even "slightly nerf" it, then so can you and your group.

Shit.. if I were at the point where I could fight the thing and I was having that much trouble, I'd be trying to pick Meowie's brain to get some kind of tips or any kind of info that would help me figure out what I'm not doing that he did, or vice versa.

I wouldn't be throwing up the white flag and basically admitting defeat by asking SE to make it easier, even by "a little bit".

My point is... If people are succeeding at the fight as-is, then there's no need to nerf it because it's clearly quite possible as-is.

[Clydey]

So...I take it you're one of those that thinks Pandemonium Warden was perfectly fine in FFXI? You know...the NM that only like...5% of the community had beaten? Looks like we have the same situation here. Does this mean that 95% of the players in this game are just terrible and need to quit? No. It means that you need to grow up and show some freaking respect for once. There is obviously something wrong if only a handful of people can complete this thing and even then, they had to try multiple times and had to have the perfect setup. You almost have to be a complete elitist to do the current 45 dungeon.

The very fact that the dungeon has been cleared multiple times proves that it is not broken. The game does not need to be easier. You need to get better. You seemingly want things handed to you. I find it absurd that you think having to 'try multiple times' to clear a dungeon is a bad thing. I would have been extremely annoyed if anyone had cleared DH on the first run.

[SeleneVenizelos]

I'm sorry, you haven't played the game very much. My points are actually all valid at this point. Try playing a bit more and actually doing something in the game, before posting, please. Especially the raise timers...how can you NOT agree that that is absolutely terrible? Even XI didn't have 3 raises on the same timer...

I wish every piece of criticism didn't come with a seemingly mandatory comparison with 11.

This is 14, and it is a different game. The reason most of us are playing it is probably because it is not 11. If changes are made with 11 in mind, we're just going to end up playing a graphically enriched version of 11, and I for one do not want that.

This isn't a dig at you, Dubont, yours is just the first I stumbled upon with a comparison.

[Evangela_II]

agree with 1-4 and 6 but...

5) the r45 dungeon needs a slight nerf. "CRY MOAR!" no seriously, the ogre opens up with AoE spam and the mages are usually dead in the first 30 seconds of the fight which leads to #6. Also, fix it so that if you wipe and have to return, that the mobs don't pop until you're team is inside the room. It is VERY hard to recover from a wipe on that fight as you will probably wipe again before your team is back into the fight (Stupid ghosts..)

you need to find another mages that don't suck

[Dubont]

agree with 1-4 and 6 but...



you need to find another mages that don't suck

I really wish people would stop saying that our mages suck, especially when I've been with this same group since the beginning with absolutely no trouble until the AoE spamming Ogre, but hey, this is something that you wouldn't know about so your opinion really doesn't matter =)

[SuzakuCMX]

I really wish people would stop saying that our mages suck, especially when I've been with this same group since the beginning with absolutely no trouble until the AoE spamming Ogre, but hey, this is something that you wouldn't know about so your opinion really doesn't matter =)

Pssst, you can interrupt the AoE according to some people...

[Vanguard319]

I really wish people would stop saying that our mages suck, especially when I've been with this same group since the beginning with absolutely no trouble until the AoE spamming Ogre, but hey, this is something that you wouldn't know about so your opinion really doesn't matter =)

Then why can't you win? A group I was in did it with 3 arc, a lnc, a gld a thm, and 2 con. There are other parties who have beaten that ogre without ANY arcs at all. It's tough, but it's hardly impossible. If it's not your mages, it's your dds, if it's not your dds, then it's your tank, and if it's not your tank, then it is your strategy. Instead of raging for a nerf, you should be looking at your own party and strategy in regards to what you are doing wrong.

[MeowyWowie]

1: MP costs are a bit high, but only slightly. MP management does not seem to be a huge problem with the people I've played with so far. Don't forget, you couldn't get as much MP at lv50 in XI as you can in XIV, so the scaling is actually pretty close.

2: Agreed

3: Supposedly being taken care of in 1.19

4: Beats exp loss. We need a death penalty, without it there's no risk whatsoever.

5: NO NO NO MOTHER F'N NOOOOOO!!! Are you freakin serious???????? We finally get real, challenging content and you want them to nerf it because you don't know how to survive longer than the mini-bosses's opening attack???? If SE nerfes it, it will be the biggest mistake they've made yet. Can't believe you're actually just suggesting this.. Also, it's really not that hard to re-enter the fight after wiping, sometimes you take even less damage than you may have from his opening attack.

6: ENM algorithms have changed. We have a hate meter for a reason now (something I was previously against, but now see the importance of it.) It actually works very well, you just have to get used to it. Only thing I would change though is ENM generated from cures a bit.

[Dubont]

5: NO NO NO MOTHER F'N NOOOOOO!!! Are you freakin serious???????? We finally get real, challenging content and you want them to nerf it because you don't know how to survive longer than the mini-bosses's opening attack???? If SE nerfes it, it will be the biggest mistake they've made yet. Can't believe you're actually just suggesting this.. Also, it's really not that hard to re-enter the fight after wiping, sometimes you take even less damage than you may have from his opening attack.

6: ENM algorithms have changed. We have a hate meter for a reason now (something I was previously against, but now see the importance of it.) It actually works very well, you just have to get used to it. Only thing I would change though is ENM generated from cures a bit.

Then please, tell me how to get back into the fight because every time we've tired, most everyone died before we even got down the ramp and YES I think it needs a SLIGHT nerf. Nothing like what they did to sea, but at least make this thing killable by more than like 5% of the community. The dude spams AoEs in 2 different directions with ghosts spamming AoEs on the outside ring so it's almost impossible to stand somewhere without getting hit and yes I'm really suggesting that it be looked into because that is just flat out unacceptable.

6) The hate meter is meh. The tank had full hate then bam, 1 cure 3 on the tank and the bar went from nothing to red and I get 1 shotted. Either the cure ENM needs to be changed or voke ENM needs to be changed because 3 vokes and 2 ws should not be less hate than a single cure 3.

[MeowyWowie]

Then please, tell me how to get back into the fight because every time we've tired, most everyone died before we even got down the ramp and YES I think it needs a SLIGHT nerf. Nothing like what they did to sea, but at least make this thing killable by more than like 5% of the community. The dude spams AoEs in 2 different directions with ghosts spamming AoEs on the outside ring so it's almost impossible to stand somewhere without getting hit and yes I'm really suggesting that it be looked into because that is just flat out unacceptable.

6) The hate meter is meh. The tank had full hate then bam, 1 cure 3 on the tank and the bar went from nothing to red and I get 1 shotted. Either the cure ENM needs to be changed or voke ENM needs to be changed because 3 vokes and 2 ws should not be less hate than a single cure 3.

Put buffs up and have your tank run in first around the right side and down the ramp, have everyone follow right behind him/her. Tank and melee in one corner, ranged and magic in opposite corner and have Ogre face only the tank. Don't do any damage until your tank secures hate. It's really that simple. Jeez..