SE has failed to fix this since launch

[OmegaSinX]

With 2.3 around the corner I had hopes SE would have fixed this issue by now. What issues you ask?... The useless cross skills...

You know, the ones that no one uses.

I.e :
Skull sunder on pld, mnk, drg.
Savage blade on War
Cure and raise on Sch & Smn
....the list goes on. These skill are either alternate version of a skills the class already had or completely useless to a class because of the game dynamics.

Ive been away from FFXIV a while so maybe I missed something. Have they ever said y these are cross classed? If not, these skills need to be traded for something else. For example, id glady trade cure on arcanist for repose or thunder. Or trade savage blade for a axe version of shield swipe(parry vs block)

Any thoughts why this was implemented this way? Maybe se has a master plan they have not revealed.

[abzoluut]

I haven't read anything about this. It comes off rather lazy on SE's part.

The things you suggest would be way overpowered in PvP or PvE though. I think the cross abilities we can choose from now are good enough. Unfortunately some jobs have little choice such as my PLD. They could do something about that.

[OmegaSinX]

I haven't read anything about this. It comes off rather lazy on SE's part.

The things you suggest would be way overpowered in PvP or PvE though.

Just putting the thought out there that some of the skills need to be addressed. SE will figure out ways to balance things if they do rework cross class. Kinda like back in 2.1.

[Kitru]

Just putting the thought out there that some of the skills need to be addressed.

What you first need to consider is that it's pretty obvious that the devs do no intend for every single CC ability to be equally useful or even useful to all classes/job. On top of this, they do not intend for every class to get the same benefits from their CC list.

PLD just gets Stoneskin and Foresight while WAR gets Conv, Featherfoot, Provoke, Second Wind, Mantra, Awareness, and Internal Release because PLD gets pretty much all of its needed functionality from GLA. The PLD CC options are weak because PLD doesn't *need* stronger/more useful options (because it fulfills all of the fundamental requirements for being a fully functional tank in a smaller number of abilities than WAR does).

SE will figure out ways to balance things if they do rework cross class. Kinda like back in 2.1.

The only CC abilities changes in 2.1 that had anything to do with balance were there to weaken certain jobs that were getting greater benefit out of those CC abilities than the devs intended. Internal Release and B4B has their CC values reduced because they were too strong as CCs; Thunder got turned into a THM/BLM exclusive because it was too strong of an attack to be allowed to use as a CC; Blizz II was given to replace it, but it was nerfed into oblivion to make up for it; Virus got the Antibody debuff so that there wasn't any value in stacking a bunch of Viruses into the group.

Hell, Mercy Stroke had its CD reduced *but that only applied as class ability* so it's not like it was made any better as a CC ability whatsoever.

The devs have pretty well explicitly shown that they do not want CC abilities to be particularly strong. Every change they have made to them has made them *weaker*, not stronger.

Now, if you want to argue that the devs will rebalance *entire classes* around getting stronger CD suites, you're basically asking the devs to do a metric shitton of work just to keep things exactly where they are right now. The classes are damned well balanced as is. You're asking for the devs to mess with that balance because you don't like that some of the *cross-class* options are basically worthless and are further asking that the devs buff them and reduce the effectiveness of the native abilities of the class to compensate (since where else are the devs going to draw off some of the effectiveness?).

The CC abilities are, honestly, fine where they are. They're not a major decision for anyone in the least. There are 2-3 "must have" options for each class (and the only time it's really "must have" is in the case of WAR, where a major part of their total CD suite, Conv, and a required function for a tank class, Provoke, are cross class), but, beyond that, they're minor benefits that are nowhere near required, which is how it *should* be.

[Nayto]

They're just a way for classes to fool around at the low level.

Also skull sunder is a useful gimmick to steal a gold if a Fate is about to finish with a GL3+IR, as a monk. Useless in raid content but the use is indeed there.
TBH I think they're more focused on balancing cross class skills from rogue that might throw some jobs out of the picture in favour of classes (imagine having BfB, IR, RS, QS and maybe an additional damage buff from ROG, that's close to 5 damage buffs in one burst)

[Zakalwe]

I actually wonder whether the whole cross class skill system was such a great idea. I didn't play XI or v.1, so maybe it is a remnant of something. As Kitru discusses, making cross class skills stronger and more diverse could have serious balance issues. The more direct route is incorporate a job's skill suite into the job (and subclass) itself. In most cases it seems SE has done just that, though there are notable exceptions where basic and necessary skills are managed as cross skills (like provoke for WAR and swiftcast for healers).

Cross class skills seem mainly a way to get people to try out other classes. Maybe SE has a plan down the road to make the system more robust, with players able to use it to build highly-customized roles, but that would run counter to the basic approach SE has taken so far with this game.

[Eggnook24]

Raise is good for scholar in low level duty roulette. Get that before Res.

[Ultimatecalibur]

It may be that SE has a purpose for each of the CC skills on the list and we just don't see them.

Skull Sunder and Savage Blade may be on the CC skill list in order to give GLA and MAR low TP fillers for Rage of Halone and Butcher's Block when those are unavailable.

[Kitru]

Skull Sunder and Savage Blade may be on the CC skill list in order to give GLA and MAR low TP fillers for Rage of Halone and Butcher's Block when those are unavailable.

You get your t2 combo attack, which is identical to the one you can cross-class from the other tank, at level 4, before you even have access to CC abilities. There is no point in *ever* taking SS or SB as CC abilities as a MRD or GLA because you get something that will do the *exact* same thing for the *exact* same cost *without* taking up a CC slot 6 levels before you even have access to CC abilities.

The only class that could get *anything* out of Savage Blade or Skull Sunder is a DoW DPS, as a mediocre increased enmity ability. For absolutely anyone else, it's either completely redundant or generates less enmity and damage than what they can do with class abilities.

[Ultimatecalibur]

You get your t2 combo attack, which is identical to the one you can cross-class from the other tank, at level 4, before you even have access to CC abilities. There is no point in *ever* taking SS or SB as CC abilities as a MRD or GLA because you get something that will do the *exact* same thing for the *exact* same cost *without* taking up a CC slot 6 levels before you even have access to CC abilities.

First crossclass slot opens at level 1 or 5 (can't remember which) and the second a 10.
FB->SB->SS and HS->SS->SB are 150 potency/350 enmity for ~63.333 TP per gcd vs FB-SB and HS->SS 175 potency/375 for 65TP per gcd. This is similar to the difference between a LNC using TT->VT (175 potency for 65 TP per gcd) and spamming Impulse Drive (180 potency for 70 TP per gcd). It's a slight TP advantage at the cost of damage/enmity generation and there are exceedingly few fights where it would have a noticeable effect, but the effect still exists. The reason exists but it is far from a great reason.