Sacred soil don't you think it could be better?

[RoseM]

If we're talking just for single-target mitigation, Soil is almost always worse than Lustrate. If I take 5 Bahamut's Claws and an autoattack for ~1800 apiece, Soil is reducing 180x6=1080 damage. A Lustrate will heal me (~7.6k hp) for 1900.

not really, if a 10 k dmg ravensbeak is coming and ur MT only has 9.5k hp, a sacred soil means the difference between dead and alive. Whereas 10 lustrate wont save ur mt's life.
sacred soil gives u more time to react, especially when ur raiding new content ungeared.

[DreamWeaver]

@RoseM

Finally somebody else that realize how Sacred Soil usage should be judged instead of the "Lustrate heals 2000, SS must mitigate >2000 to be worth it!!" nonsense .

[Ooshima]

How many fights is it that AoE damage taken so rapidly that the DR from Soil was absolutely needed for everyone to survive? Give Medica 2 and/or Whispering Dawn time to tick and you don't need to bother with Soil.

If we're talking just for single-target mitigation, Soil is almost always worse than Lustrate. If I take 5 Bahamut's Claws and an autoattack for ~1800 apiece, Soil is reducing 180x6=1080 damage. A Lustrate will heal me (~7.6k hp) for 1900.

Are you really a healer?

"Mitigation" as it says is to reduce incoming damage. Medica II and Lustrate are reactive healing. Sacred Soil, Galvanize and Stoneskin are preventive healing (and thus, mitigation).

Try not having galvanize and SS up for your i90ish DRG in T9 during progression and instead have Medica II on him, and see if he will survive Megaflare and you having chance to Lustrate him or not, lol...

[Adamantium]

not really, if a 10 k dmg ravensbeak is coming and ur MT only has 9.5k hp, a sacred soil means the difference between dead and alive. Whereas 10 lustrate wont save ur mt's life.
sacred soil gives u more time to react, especially when ur raiding new content ungeared.

If your tank is taking 10k damage from Ravensbeak, you have bigger problems than whether you should use Sacred Soil or Lustrate.

[SeraviEdalborez]

Are you really a healer?

"Mitigation" as it says is to reduce incoming damage. Medica II and Lustrate are reactive healing. Sacred Soil, Galvanize and Stoneskin are preventive healing (and thus, mitigation).

Try not having galvanize and SS up for your i90ish DRG in T9 during progression and instead have Medica II on him, and see if he will survive Megaflare and you having chance to Lustrate him or not, lol...

If you're up to T9 progression with i90ish DPS, I congratulate you on being much better than the average bear. You have earned the right to use Soil if it prevents the DRG from dying.

If he doesn't die without it, it still wasn't "worth" the stack. You have a good 10 seconds (counting the animation time for Megaflare) before Nael comes back down. Why would you burn a Lustrate on a DRG when nothing is going on anyways? Mitigation is mitigation, but mitigation a (arbitrary number) 5000 hit to your 4800 HP members when you have a year and a half to get them back to full? There's no point. You overheal everyone back to full with or without it. Do you heal?

Because I do. SCH was my main up to Turn 9 phase 3 (have handled many Megaflare transitions without Soil, using Fey/Succor/Stoneskin[sometimes mine, sometimes WHM's]), then circumstances forced me to change to tank main and leave that task to another. He also agrees with me (posted in this topic).

Soil can be a band-aid for when WHM forgets to Stoneskin everyone pre-Megaflare. But it is not required. You really only need 2-3 of: Succor, Stoneskin, Soil, Fey Covenant, better-than-i90 VIT. If "borderline" survivors are an issue, SCH can give them a real Adlo. We've gotten people to survive through double weakness if necessary. Without soil.

If mitigation would have prevented outright death or death 1-2 seconds after the hit, you can argue it was worth using. Otherwise, better healers are better than Soil.

Edit: Also not even having Galvanize up for Megaflare is really bad.

[Tyurru]

not really, if a 10 k dmg ravensbeak is coming and ur MT only has 9.5k hp, a sacred soil means the difference between dead and alive. Whereas 10 lustrate wont save ur mt's life.
sacred soil gives u more time to react, especially when ur raiding new content ungeared.

If you stoneskin and Aldoqium that should NEVER happen, I have healed 3 T9 wins now, and never once needed to use Soil.
If you're tanks are eating Ravens for FULL damage, you need new healers.

[Tyurru]

Are you really a healer?

"Mitigation" as it says is to reduce incoming damage. Medica II and Lustrate are reactive healing. Sacred Soil, Galvanize and Stoneskin are preventive healing (and thus, mitigation).

Try not having galvanize and SS up for your i90ish DRG in T9 during progression and instead have Medica II on him, and see if he will survive Megaflare and you having chance to Lustrate him or not, lol...

By the time you get to Megaflare if you don't have a Succor/Stoneskin while your waiting for it to cast, you need new healers.

Don't judge other peoples healing when it seems you need to sort your own out.

[SeraviEdalborez]

Soil takes ~ 3 seconds (on your screen, slightly less for others) to actually give the buff (which then persists for about 3 seconds after Soil fades). So putting it up 2 seconds before anything hits does all of nothing.

[Ooshima]

If you're up to T9 progression with i90ish DPS, I congratulate you on being much better than the average bear. You have earned the right to use Soil if it prevents the DRG from dying. If he doesn't die without it, it still wasn't "worth" the stack. You have a good 10 seconds (counting the animation time for Megaflare) before Nael comes back down. Why would you burn a Lustrate on a DRG when nothing is going on anyways? Mitigation is mitigation, but mitigation a (arbitrary number) 5000 hit to your 4800 HP members when you have a year and a half to get them back to full? There's no point. You overheal everyone back to full with or without it. Do you heal?

Because I do. SCH was my main up to Turn 9 phase 3 (have handled many Megaflare transitions without Soil, using Fey/Succor/Stoneskin[sometimes mine, sometimes WHM's]), then circumstances forced me to change to tank main and leave that task to another. He also agrees with me (posted in this topic).

Soil can be a band-aid for when WHM forgets to Stoneskin everyone pre-Megaflare. But it is not required. You really only need 2-3 of: Succor, Stoneskin, Soil, Fey Covenant, better-than-i90 VIT. If "borderline" survivors are an issue, SCH can give them a real Adlo. We've gotten people to survive through double weakness if necessary. Without soil.

If mitigation would have prevented outright death or death 1-2 seconds after the hit, you can argue it was worth using. Otherwise, better healers are better than Soil.

Edit: Also not even having Galvanize up for Megaflare is really bad.

Yes. I cleared T8 and went into T9 with everyone in the team sub ilvl100. MT was at about i98 due to very good luck with loots and for the DPS, I was the most geared (BRD) with i95 (that was quite some time back already, I'm ilvl110 now). Sacred Soil at that point of time can mean life and death for Megaflare especially for the mages. And of course, Sacred Soil is godsend during our T8 progression to mitigate damage from the defensive towers.

And BTW, I have already cleared T9 before Patch 2.3.

May I know when you first did T9, how geared is everyone in your team? From your description it seems that everyone is decently geared with some decent HP already. If everyone have decent HP then of course it is easier to top everyone up and just require SS/Succor/Fey to eat Megaflare just fine.

But if you have done T9 with everyone sub i100 and only the tank having HP past 5,000, then you will see a different picture. LOLDRG's MDEF is so bad - check around for threads and you can see complaints that DRG can even die with SS/Succor up and usually requires an Aldo to be safe. When your DPS are sub i100 you may not kill the golems that fast and if you derped a little, the raid might end up eating one extra demolish that causes the healers to panic and unable to top everyone back to 100% before Megaflare hits, and this is where Sacred Soil comes.

Sacred Soil is still ultimately a mitigation tool. Mitigation healing and reactive healing are just different. Comparing it to Lustrate in terms of raw numbers is just irrelevant (or should I say, unfair) because you have to survive a hit first before you can receive reactive healing such as Cure II/Lustrate. During early progression, Sacred Soil meant a thing in T6, T8 and T9 because everyone isn't that geared yet with high HP.

By the time you get to Megaflare if you don't have a Succor/Stoneskin while your waiting for it to cast, you need new healers.

Don't judge other peoples healing when it seems you need to sort your own out.

Do you even understand what me and him are discussing about?

EDIT: I see you are above i100 already - if as a healer you are that geared, your team can't be too shabby either. Refer to the above reply to SeraviEdalborez on T9 with everyone sub i100.

[Staris]

we had 1 person at i93 when we killed it. (12 weeks ago, or maybe 11?)
Sacred soil + vit pot + stoneskin + succor.

If you still need soil now... you just are not trying to get gear anyway... lol