macros: bad for DPS?

[TheMax1087]

Snip

Theres quite alot wrong in this post, The idea that you have to macro on a dragoon because you are using a controller is just completely untrue. They have only have 22 skills(27 with cross class) and you can have 36 skills active without changing hotbars using l2+r2 and r2+l2 using a controller. The idea that the main reason people die is looking at toolbars is just silly, as thats a problem only someone completely new to hotbar based games would have. The main thing you seem to have missed though, shown by your dead dps dont dps remark, is this topic is about maximized dps, which assumes the person doing the dps isnt dead in the first place.

[Amberyl]

Thats why I think it's silly that this game doesn't queue macro'd skills because people will always find a way to do so if they want to min-max and will resort to third party tools.

Exactly. And the evangelists here preaching against the use of macros are missing this entirely. I think they'd be surprised just how many of the people that they consider capable players are using hardware macros to allow them to concentrate on dodging damage markers. No one wants to admit that's why they bought their branded mouse or keyboard in this game, however, due to the stigma the rounding change has brought to macro use since it came in.

Regardless, it happens, and the players using them top the parsers regularly.

[Amberyl]

The main thing you seem to have missed though, shown by your dead dps dont dps remark, is this topic is about maximized dps, which assumes the person doing the dps isnt dead in the first place.

Word play and semantics. If the ideal were so achievable, then companies like Razer wouldn't have a market for their £200 MMO-geared keyboards.

[LalaRu]

My main use of macro is telling the party what I am doing, on some key skills as stun and sleep.

I think that adding 0,1 capabilities to /wait is not game breaking, as some of you pointed, some keyboards can be macro'ed even at 1/1000s timing.

[saeedaisspecial]

Word play and semantics. If the ideal were so achievable, then companies like Razer wouldn't have a market for their £200 MMO-geared keyboards.

The fact you're focusing on the minority when the majorty min/max their DPS without using macros and/or third party tools is funny.
You're always harping on about how people use hardware macros so they can focus on dodging, when the real fact is, a huge majority of players don't do this and don't need to. It just sounds as if you're accusing everyone who can do what you can't of cheating.

[Eggnook24]

The difference between being a good DPS and a great DPS is macros. If you have a combo rotation as a macro and use it instead of manually doing it, your damage does decline. That being said, macros are often used not because of laziness, but because of crossbar space, especially on PS3. Also, as a SCH, I do have 1 DoT macro I use for downtime in healing, as well as my pet's abilities on obey. Macros as a SCH are pretty much necessary. On my PLD, not necessary. On my DRG, only Jumps are macroed with invigorate, and just FYI, you can interrupt macros by hitting another GCD spell or skill, it's not like you're locked in. But yes, to be the best DPS, limit your macro use.

[Amberyl]

You're always harping on about how people use hardware macros so they can focus on dodging, when the real fact is, a huge majority of players don't do this and don't need to.

I wasn't aware you knew me to make that distinction. It is a valid point here, however, and one you're over looking, which is why I raised it. No, not every player out there does this, or has a product capable of doing it. But many have, and many do. Either with simple short burst macros triggered on mouse buttons, or more complex, layered macros, on expensive keyboards. They're regularly discussed on vent/ts, as is how easily Square's intentional crippling of the macro system in this game is bypassed.

Don't hate on the messenger. Chasing the ideal is all about min/maxing, and this is a popular way of achieving that.

It seems ridiculous that the legitimate player is penalized for macro'ing within the client, when products like this are readily accessible.

[saeedaisspecial]

Don't hate on the messenger. Chasing the ideal is all about min/maxing, and this is a popular way of achieving that.

It seems ridiculous that the legitimate player is penalized for macro'ing within the client, when products like this are readily accessible.

Except that macroing, even with tools is inherently a bad thing. There are times like already brought up in the thread where you may not want to perform your full macro.
You might be pulled away from the mob to dodge an AoE, your macro keeps running and when you get back it does the third action on the list instead of the second, where you were when you ran off, breaking your combo. There could be points (and there are in certain fights) where you need to hold DPS, and you can't stop because welp, you're using a macro. In Turn 6 Bouquet starts casting? Macro running? You're dead. In Turn 7 you might have to turn for voices, your macro keeps running? GJ. You've just wiped the raid.
They are bad, not just because of the delays with in game macros, but all types are bad. You should never rely on them.

No top tier player will min/max using any sort of macros.

[Amberyl]

There are times like already brought up in the thread where you may not want to perform your full macro. <snip> No top tier player will min/max using any sort of macros.

And as has already been pointed out, you don't have to use the full macro just because you've pressed the button. In the client, they can be aborted easily with other skills, or even with a blank echo macro. With hardware macros, you often have the option to hold the button to run the macro, or can also have a separate key or second key press to stop all macros in progress. With the Razer Death Adder, a middling level, incredibly common mouse, it's possible to macro the Dragoon's entire GCD rotation onto one mouse button that is held to progress the rotation, with the player then easily free to weave non-GCD and buffs with a only few keys.

As for no top-tier players using then? That's outright ignorance, I'm afraid. You're kidding yourself, sorry.

[TheMax1087]

Word play and semantics. If the ideal were so achievable, then companies like Razer wouldn't have a market for their £200 MMO-geared keyboards.

Incase you couldnt tell by the content of my post, i play with a controller(even though i play on pc), so razer having a £200 MMO-geared keyboard has no bearing on me at all.

As for no top-tier players using then? That's outright ignorance, I'm afraid. You're kidding yourself, sorry.

Saeed specifically said "No top tier player will min/max using any sort of macros.", min/maxing being the whole point of the macro vs no macro debate. I know you are trolling in this topic, but the very first post has a vid of someone doing the same rotation side by side losing dps by using macros.