Echo for EX and Coils, wtf?

[Fizzie]

They'll never understand, but I'm pretty frickin' glad people like you exist.

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

They really need to learn that, surprise; everyone's different. People find enjoyment in different things, and there are so many different ways of playing the game, different motivations for playing, and yes, of course, different levels of skill.

Their problem seems to be accepting this. They also seem to have their own difficulties in how to use Party Finder. Seeing and they're so against making their own parties. I guess, as incredible as they seem to think they are at playing a computer, they're not so good with the common sense.

[Lithera]

Keep in mind that the Echo other than Coil only kicks in after a wipe. I've almost never seen a group that intentionally goes in to build Echo. I don't think you'd have that much trouble convincing a group to turn it off if you wiped and got an Echo stack as long as the group wasn't completely horrible. An EX farming party likely won't ever see Echo or maybe once after the occasional wipe. I do agree however that the Echo is somewhat allowing less capable people through. I've been in a Garuda EX group where DPS in i90+ gear were not passing the DPS check to avoid the second Mistral Song. Ive experienced the same thing in Titan EX where a group with full Echo couldn't bust the heart before the circle bombs. Hell they didn't break it until after the subsequent 5-way Landslide.

As for Moggle and Levi EX...I foresee wipes on both. With Levi he'll auto-enrage if you over DPS potentially easier than Ifrit. With Moggle you'll end up with a Moogle dying early way more often than you already do. Especially due to Echo buffed DoTs left on them after the DPS move to another Moogle.

[Paruza]

There are some legitimate points to be had for the echo, and I'm not suggesting removing it entirely.

That said, I would like to see an option to play the various encounters with a fixed ilvl (so you can't overgear) & no echo. Just add an achievement for each one, no need for anything special. That way hardcore groups can come back and play the encounter at the maximum difficulty it originally intended for, and everyone else can just play hopscotch over it and pretend they achieved something as usual.

[Vespar]

Why does this matter honestly? If you have already done the content and have what you want from it then. who gives a hoot.
The echo is simply there to help others who don't have as much time to play actually get through content. I know dozens of folks who still can't beat T5 even with the echo.. they aren't bad players they just dont have as much time to put into the game and therefore got left behind and are trying to catch up. This is SE's way of helping those folks out.

Echo is fine exactly as it is.... if you want your "I'm the greatest there ever was" moment, go do the new Savage coil. But if the only excuse for wanting echo to be changed/removed is because of bragging rights then that's kind of sad ._.

[Tolmos]

I never said stupidity was a disability. Have some fucking respect! I was talking about actual disabilities. Slower reaction times can mean you don't think quite as quickly as someone else, or that you do but you can't put those thoughts into action as fast as somebody else, and many other things. It doesn't mean people are stupid.

And having slower reactions would make something like Titan EX impossible for some people. Let alone some of the Coil mechanics. AoE is not friendly to even the most everage of players, let alone those with disabilities and such.

Echo is there to help players who may be having a harder time, for whatever reason, than others.

The world would be a better place with more folks like you out there

[Synestra]

Personally...I don't think everyone should be able to beat all the content. Its supposed to be like that. It gives you something to strive for and a reason to get better.

I hate to say but i must agree with this, and this reason alone is why i personally think WoW TBC was kinda golden era of MMO gaming. I still remember doing Karazhan with my guild while some more skilled and advanced guilds were tackling on SSC and TK, and seeing them and talking to some of them gave me motivation to grind content so that oneday i can conquer same content they were currently doing. The feeling when we finally downed illidan was something i will never get again in modern MMO's due content getting "old", because back then there was no "old content" as all guilds were on diffirent raid tiers doing progress at their own pace.

R.I.P MMO gaming since 11.13.2008 ;_;

[Venos]

There are some legitimate points to be had for the echo, and I'm not suggesting removing it entirely.

That said, I would like to see an option to play the various encounters with a fixed ilvl (so you can't overgear) & no echo. Just add an achievement for each one, no need for anything special. That way hardcore groups can come back and play the encounter at the maximum difficulty it originally intended for, and everyone else can just play hopscotch over it and pretend they achieved something as usual.

Good god girl, get a grip. You want them to do extra work so you can stay a special snowflake???? I'm done, I just can't, lol. I'm truly lost for word with some of the people on these forums.

[Paruza]

Good god girl, get a grip. You want them to do extra work so you can stay a special snowflake???? ...

No, I'm just suggesting that old content isn't worthless, and that new players (like myself), and even older players, might find value in going back and experiencing an encounter how it was originally scaled. Throwing in an achievement for that is a minimal touch, and one that has value I think.

None of this is about feeling like a "special snowflake", it's about keeping content around that appeals to those that like it. I'm certainly willing to concede that it may be necessary to have things like the echo, for players with disabilities, or lack of time, or bad reaction times, etc, being inclusive is probably a good thing. At the same time I am not disabled, I have fast reaction times, I enjoy the challenge and team building process, and also don't have a lack of time. Being inclusive goes both ways.

[Mcshiggs]

There is also the development side for reasons for putting in things like the echo to make older content easier for people that didn't clear it when it first came out. I remember that in Warcraft such a small percentage of the population even saw the last boss in I think it was Black Temple, that it made some of them mad. They put in a lot of time and money to design that, and they want people to be able to see and experience it, so with Wrath, they lowered the raid size to make raiding more accessible and with ICC put in the stacking buff for the older floors so that more people could get in on it.

[Gormogon]

find value in going back and experiencing an encounter how it was originally scaled

I always hear this pretense.

Yet where's the group that wants this that actually goes to Coil

1.) Equips gears below ilvl90
2.) Clicks off echo