Fundamental problem to party dynamic

[LuxLex]

Next 2-3 patches? So people just should quit if they like playing THM, MRD, LNC, or PUG (not to mention DoL, whose gathering points are now crawling with aggro worse than ever before)?

Sounds like this patch is working wonders for the game.

[Murugan]

Next 2-3 patches? So people just should quit if they like playing THM, MRD, LNC, or PUG (not to mention DoL, whose gathering points are now crawling with aggro worse than ever before)?

Sounds like this patch is working wonders for the game.

Whatever that's not what I said. As you can see I play pugilist, I gave tips on how to overcome the problem. Are you more of a liability than archer? Yes. Are you as useful as an archer damage wise? No. But you really weren't before the patch either with the exception of Lancers using Twisting Vice to constantly wipe mob TP which was pretty gamey anyways. It's called balance, it goes up and it goes down and it is never perfect. I was simply saying that I expect it to get better for us in a patch to come.

I'm not going to cry about it and quit, but then again I'm not the type of person to do that every time my class doesn't end up as the king of the hill. Melee are not useless, and there are things you can do as a player to shore up your shortcomings until we get some love in a future patch. You can deal with it, level another class we can do that in this game you know, and what's more your main class will likely benefit from doing so or frankly you can be a baby about it.

[Endemerrin]

They really do need to take a look at enmity generation. I've yet to see a group get past the Deepvoid Slave without having a group comprised entirely of magic users and ranged DPS with a single tank. It literally seems damn near impossible to swing it if you have to constantly be throwing out AoE cures on the group because of all the AoE damage raining about. It just generates too much enmity, and it's extremely difficult to keep aggro with that going on. It doesn't help that provoke no longer forces a target to attack you. Plus the sheer amount of damage the slave dishes out on a single target is extremely painful. Given the sluggish response of movement with the game engine, it can be really difficult to be on the ball.

They really need to look over things again or else redefine these dungeons. I'm sure a majority were lead to believe this dungeon could be accomplished with a casual group, albeit with challenging difficulty. Yet the difficulty in having melee in group is so high that people simply give up and go with the one technique they know works: the all ranged group. Mechanics should be changed, both player-wise and enemy-wise.

[GabbaGabba]

i think they should incorporate more conal attacks and less of the whole area of effect attacks. lower the MP cost of -ga spells, maybe even implement a skill that allows the CNJ/THM to -ga their next spell for the same amount of emnity/mp cost as the normal spell. put it on a 30 sec CD for maybe those times that the mob does their AOE attacks.

having more conal attacks gives more room for positional fighting. melees can attack from the sides while anyone in the front or in the back takes dmg. it might not get rid of the 5 arc/ 2 cnj/ 1 gld parties but it creates less of a liability for melee DDs and adds more strategy in battles by making sure people stand in the right positions

[Hotohori]

Yesterday there was a JP shout for raid 50 and the guy was a gladiator recruiting archers and mages only. Although it is good to know my classes still have a place in the party scene, I do feel a bit sad for pugilists, lancers and marauders being second string choices for now. But this is natural selection at its finest because in a small scale battle situation, your usefulness needs to outweigh your liability costs or you are simply not worth the party slot.

[LuxLex]

natural selection at its finest. So the goal is to make THM, PUG, MRD and LNC extinct?

[Hotohori]

In a game where your character is freely able to play as any class on the fly, a truly optimized party will try to minimize the roles that have greater liability to the party. It's just common sense that you want the group to be strong against specific situations but that does not mean there will not be any future scenarios where your class can shine and be highly desirable. A great example would be a summoner at promathia missions or black mage at bcnms. But if you think that I would want either of those jobs in a experience party set up for burning colibri, you must be joking. Hopefully they will come out with enough content where different situations call for different classes to be used to become the optimal fighting group.

[Physic]

Yesterday there was a JP shout for raid 50 and the guy was a gladiator recruiting archers and mages only. Although it is good to know my classes still have a place in the party scene, I do feel a bit sad for pugilists, lancers and marauders being second string choices for now. But this is natural selection at its finest because in a small scale battle situation, your usefulness needs to outweigh your liability costs or you are simply not worth the party slot.

except this isnt nature, this is a game that developers were supposed to make have different viable classes that each serve a purpose in the game ecosystem. So basically what your saying is they have failed horribly at balancing in the first patch that was supposed to make battle and class worthwhile, and that natural selection has shown how unbalanced they have made the game.

I agree.

[Physic]

In a game where your character is freely able to play as any class on the fly, a truly optimized party will try to minimize the roles that have greater liability to the party. It's just common sense that you want the group to be strong against specific situations but that does not mean there will not be any future scenarios where your class can shine and be highly desirable. A great example would be a summoner at promathia missions or black mage at bcnms. But if you think that I would want either of those jobs in a experience party set up for burning colibri, you must be joking. Hopefully they will come out with enough content where different situations call for different classes to be used to become the optimal fighting group.

con is REQUIRED now for any content GLAD is the hands down best at hate management AND dmg mitigation, even more than before ARCH has the highest dps in the game with the least risk.

Im sorry but they have built a system where glad con arch is the whole team no matter what the content.

[Hotohori]

con is REQUIRED now for any content GLAD is the hands down best at hate management AND dmg mitigation, even more than before ARCH has the highest dps in the game with the least risk.

Im sorry but they have built a system where glad con arch is the whole team no matter what the content.

I agree with the content that was just released, the developers took a very basic approach on how to create difficult content by limiting the effectiveness of most of the classes for a specific situation. Soon as bard is released, I'm sure it will take another spot in the optimal party set up for most situation as well and squeezing out another space from a melee player. Sadly this is what happens when the people ask for specialized roles because the truth is not all roles are valued equally in the optimal party. They tried to equalize the effectiveness of Disciples of War and only ended up with a mesh of identical classes specializing in either defense, evasion, parry, ranged and enfeeblement which people found to be dull and boring.