Do NOT make the same mistake as FFXI.

[Val_Rhys]

I think people are bringing up a lot of good points but it seems the extreme opinions are screaming the loudest.

The bottom line is, balancing is still required. I don't think that's arguable. Though, despite the rabid response of the player base, I actually think the game/classes are in better balance after this update in comparison to what it was beforehand. THMs were so senselessly overpowered, it was absurd. And ARC mechanics were similar but not only was ranged attack favoured, it was more powerful.

Currently, my major concern for battle is the ranged attack situation. SE has seemed to fundamentally missed the point that as long as ARC does similar damage to the other dps classes, they will always be favoured so long as they design fights with no penalty for standing at range and avoiding all the AoE attacks that melee classes are susceptible to. It's actually amazing they don't see this.

EDIT: For all the people who are telling players to equip cure/sacrifice to preserve themselves, is that what we really want in a game? That's a serious question. I personally don't like the idea. I would rather have classes play a characteristic role (heal, dps, tank, etc.) than have everyone with the ability to cure a bit, dps a bit, tank a bit, etc. I know it's not quite that simple, but the point stands.

[Ilean]

Do you really think players WANT to change their playstyle? The playstyle is as unique as our own individual personalities - it is a reflection of our preferences and tastes. If we are forced to change it, we are in essence being made to deny ourselves our real identities.

Square Enix is an idiot for this.

Well that's a bit extreme but I understand what you mean.

Also I've tried to keep myself alive with SW and sac 2, no go.

Bloodbath as usual is useless against enemies you actually need it for...

[SilvertearRen]

I think people are bringing up a lot of good points but it seems the extreme opinions are screaming the loudest.

The bottom line is, balancing is still required. I don't think that's arguable. Though, despite the rabid response of the player base, I actually think the game/classes are in better balance after this update in comparison to what it was beforehand. THMs were so senselessly overpowered, it was absurd. And ARC mechanics were similar but not only was ranged attack favoured, it was more powerful.

Currently, my major concern for battle is the ranged attack situation. SE has seemed to fundamentally missed the point that as long as ARC does similar damage to the other dps classes, they will always be favoured so long as they design fights with no penalty for standing at range and avoiding all the AoE attacks that melee classes are susceptible to. It's actually amazing they don't see this.

EDIT: For all the people who are telling players to equip cure/sacrifice to preserve themselves, is that what we really want in a game? That's a serious question. I personally don't like the idea. I would rather have classes play a characteristic role (heal, dps, tank, etc.) than have everyone with the ability to cure a bit, dps a bit, tank a bit, etc. I know it's not quite that simple, but the point stands.

In a small party without a healer, my friends would often use Cure/Sacrifice to heal each other and themselves. This was a very useful tool.

In regards to Archers, they aren't a major problem. The real problem is how the mobs behave in response to being attacked by a squad of archers, versus the melee players. As it is now in Dzemael Darkhold, there are no targeted attacks intended to discourage ARC kiting, but the major problem is in how difficult it is to produce results as melee combatants, versus Archers.

In that sense, it would be more prudent to simply retool the Ogre's bestiary - change their skillsets, alter them, and rebalance them so that they consider all classes fair game, rather than just punishing the crap out of melees.

[MeowyWowie]

Care to share which of the Ogre's AOEs can be stopped by which skills?

Inferno drop can be stunned, by just about every class. Up to you guys to figure out how. The rest can be completely avoided. Trial and error.

If people wanna take the easy way out and force people to come specific jobs whatever, not my problem. I'm having fun, it sucks that others are not, QQ.

[SilvertearRen]

Well that's a bit extreme but I understand what you mean.

Also I've tried to keep myself alive with SW and sac 2, no go.

Bloodbath as usual is useless against enemies you actually need it for...

It's useless because of the high defense resists on the enemy target. The less HP you are able to remove from the enemy target, the less HP you gain. This is another fundamental design flaw - many bosses have simply overbuffed defenses for the current combat system, and that makes it difficult for players to fully take advantage of the abilities available to them.

My advice to this problem is to simply tone down the defense stats, and increase the enemy's HP. That way, abilities are more effective, but the mob still takes just as long to die.

[Val_Rhys]

In a small party without a healer, my friends would often use Cure/Sacrifice to heal each other and themselves. This was a very useful tool.

I understand that and I understand it's a very powerful tool. That's what bothers me. I dislike having every class with the ability to cure themselves via MP and cure spells that make little sense in the context of the class role.

The rest I agree with you on in regards to ARC. There are a lot of ways around the problem. Whether that's adjusting ranged potency or retooling monster attacks to punish them equally with other melee, something needs to change though.

[Winterclaw]

IMO bloodbath should give you a fixed amount of HP every time you hit for a fixed time instead of being a percentage of your next hit (which is why it sucks for pugs on autoattack). But that's another discussion.

[Neptune]

Do you really think players WANT to change their playstyle? The playstyle is as unique as our own individual personalities - it is a reflection of our preferences and tastes. If we are forced to change it, we are in essence being made to deny ourselves our real identities.

Square Enix is an idiot for this. (They are also idiots for failing to understand and apply the concept of incremental moderation in effecting changes to their product.)

seconded. ..

[SilvertearRen]

I understand that and I understand it's a very powerful tool. That's what bothers me. I dislike having every class with the ability to cure themselves via MP and cure spells that make little sense in the context of the class role.

The rest I agree with you on in regards to ARC. There are a lot of ways around the problem. Whether that's adjusting ranged potency or retooling monster attacks to punish them equally with other melee, something needs to change though.

If something is going to change, I'd prefer to see Twisting Vice's original potency restored, and some of the Ogre's abilities reduced slightly. The way Twisting Vice used to be, it was able to nuke an enemy's accumulated TP completely and without discrimination.

If Twisting Vice had remained intact, it would have meant Lancers would be an absolute-must in Dzemael Darkhold, because of their TP-nullification/suppression capability. And THAT would have opened the door to allowing other classes to participate.

Pre 1.18, Lancers were perfectly balanced as support classes. Now? They're just derplancers, incapable of taking on endbosses and failing so hard at what they were supposed to do best: suppress the enemy.

[Ilean]

If people wanna take the easy way out and force people to come specific jobs whatever, not my problem. I'm having fun, it sucks that others are not, QQ.

Thanks for sharing.