Do NOT make the same mistake as FFXI.

[SilvertearRen]

What I'm surprised about though is how people don't seem to be talking about changing their playstyles in light of the changes.

Do you really think players WANT to change their playstyle? The playstyle is as unique as our own individual personalities - it is a reflection of our preferences and tastes. If we are forced to change it, we are in essence being made to deny ourselves our real identities.

Square Enix is an idiot for this. (They are also idiots for failing to understand and apply the concept of incremental moderation in effecting changes to their product.)

[Ilean]

Do you really think players WANT to change their playstyle? The playstyle is as unique as our own individual personalities - it is a reflection of our preferences and tastes. If we are forced to change it, we are in essence being made to deny ourselves our real identities.

Square Enix is an idiot for this.

Well that's a bit extreme but I understand what you mean.

Also I've tried to keep myself alive with SW and sac 2, no go.

Bloodbath as usual is useless against enemies you actually need it for...

[SilvertearRen]

Well that's a bit extreme but I understand what you mean.

Also I've tried to keep myself alive with SW and sac 2, no go.

Bloodbath as usual is useless against enemies you actually need it for...

It's useless because of the high defense resists on the enemy target. The less HP you are able to remove from the enemy target, the less HP you gain. This is another fundamental design flaw - many bosses have simply overbuffed defenses for the current combat system, and that makes it difficult for players to fully take advantage of the abilities available to them.

My advice to this problem is to simply tone down the defense stats, and increase the enemy's HP. That way, abilities are more effective, but the mob still takes just as long to die.

[Neptune]

Do you really think players WANT to change their playstyle? The playstyle is as unique as our own individual personalities - it is a reflection of our preferences and tastes. If we are forced to change it, we are in essence being made to deny ourselves our real identities.

Square Enix is an idiot for this. (They are also idiots for failing to understand and apply the concept of incremental moderation in effecting changes to their product.)

seconded. ..

[Preypacer]

Do you really think players WANT to change their playstyle? The playstyle is as unique as our own individual personalities - it is a reflection of our preferences and tastes. If we are forced to change it, we are in essence being made to deny ourselves our real identities.

Square Enix is an idiot for this. (They are also idiots for failing to understand and apply the concept of incremental moderation in effecting changes to their product.)

Well that's a bit unrealistic.

There's no MMO out there that allows you to play *exactly* the way you might want to. In every MMO, - even classless, purely skill-based ones - your playstyle is always limited within the confines of what the game allows.

There are always compromises.

To that end, expecting a game developer to alter a game to allow every single individual person to play *exactly* the way they'd *like* to if they could is unrealistic.

It's one thing to say you're unhappy with the changes SE has made.

But it's rather far-fetched and bordering on hyperbolic to argue that they're denying you the ability to reflect your "true identity".

[SilvertearRen]

Well that's a bit unrealistic.

There's no MMO out there that allows you to play *exactly* the way you might want to. In every MMO, - even classless, purely skill-based ones - your playstyle is always limited within the confines of what the game allows.

There are always compromises.

To that end, expecting a game developer to alter a game to allow every single individual person to play *exactly* the way they'd *like* to if they could is unrealistic.

It's one thing to say you're unhappy with the changes SE has made.

But it's rather far-fetched and bordering on hyperbolic to argue that they're denying you the ability to reflect your "true identity".

I think what I was getting at was that Square Enix keeps expecting us to play one particular way, with each given class, and it's kind of getting ridiculous. Whatever happened to being able to individualize?

[Preypacer]

I think what I was getting at was that Square Enix keeps expecting us to play one particular way, with each given class, and it's kind of getting ridiculous. Whatever happened to being able to individualize?

Perhaps.

Frankly, in my experience across myriad MMOs of varying playstyles, the concept of "individualizing" in a MMO is an illusion. I'm not saying it's not worth pursuing... it just never happens.

Why? For the very reasons people have brought up in this thread.

If a pre-determined class-design doesn't limit you to specific roles, then the rest of the player-base will, starting with the min/maxers and working its way across the playerbase from there.

There are so many MMOs out there that offer, seemingly, limitless playstyle options, they're classless and purely skill-based, in those MMOs "you are what you do" so to speak. What ends up happening, regardless? Players start reducing the options down to a handful of "proven builds" that are deemed "the most optimal" anyway. So you end up in exactly the same situation as if the developers had determined those roles instead.

The irony is, in those skill-based games, after the players have reduced all those countless combinations down to the "accepted few", they'll still turn around and blame the devs for it. Why? Because people also very seldom have any sense of personal accountability. Everything is always someone else's fault, even when it isn't. But that's a whole other issue.

No matter what SE does, how flexible they make the system or how many options they truly provide, you can bet your ass the players will step in, define and impose restrictions in their stead.

This picture sums it up best

SE - and all developers - can, and should, do everything in their power to try and provide as diverse and interesting an experience as they can. However, the players - at some point - have to do their part to resist writing guides, crowning them as "The One And Only Correct Way To Play" and then demanding everyone follow them or "they're not playing right". That's a behavior SE - or any developer - can do nothing about.

Should it happen? Absolutely. Will it? I stopped holding my breath a long time ago.

[Gramul]

I think what I was getting at was that Square Enix keeps expecting us to play one particular way, with each given class, and it's kind of getting ridiculous. Whatever happened to being able to individualize?

You lost a bit of it when Square listened to the people that wanted set duties for each class like in FFXI.

Or rather, you are for now. People want CON to be the healer class because there is currently no better alternative. When the White Mage Job comes out, people will want them to be the healers and CON will theoretically have more freedom to do as they please. We'll see how it works out.

[Winterclaw]

You lost a bit of it when Square listened to the people that wanted set duties for each class like in FFXI.

Or rather, you are for now. People want CON to be the healer class because there is currently no better alternative. When the White Mage Job comes out, people will want them to be the healers and CON will theoretically have more freedom to do as they please. We'll see how it works out.

That's one thing I really like about GW... you've got a measure of class flexibility. If you want your "nuker" class to nuke, you can (kinda pointless though as they aren't the DD in that game). You want him to be a support char, you can. You want him to be a healer, you can (and last I heard they were pretty good at the role).