Crafted Gear from Dungeons

[Dreadnought]

what are the players that dont want to deal with crafters for every single thing supposed to do? we want gear but dont want to spend another entire day looknig for a crafter you can trust to make it and then paying them to do so on top of it.

the best solution is to have both options. bosses should drop mats for certain gear and other actual gear already made.
i thought it was already said that crafters/fielders were going to be de-emphasized in comparison to Tanakas idea.

[Oscillate_Wildly]

what are the players that dont want to deal with crafters for every single thing supposed to do? we want gear but dont want to spend another entire day looknig for a crafter you can trust to make it and then paying them to do so on top of it.

the best solution is to have both options. bosses should drop mats for certain gear and other actual gear already made.
i thought it was already said that crafters/fielders were going to be de-emphasized in comparison to Tanakas idea.

I agree with what you're saying at the bottom. Wasn't it said that all the best gear would be crafted? I'm not against chests and mobs dropping gear, but they should always drop craft-items like cloth, thread, scales or ores that can be made to enhance or create better gear.

Having all good gear Mob drop gear is a cop-out and is only catering to those who have been asking from day one to have it now now now.

Lately all these patches have been marginalizing crafters to the point where they deserve to lash out at least a little bit. Why buy gear when you can get decent gear from NM's? It's crap. Sure crafting can be fun but there are folks who do it to make gil, and to create armour for their friends. But when they can get it for free what's the use of leveling it?

[Dreadnought]

I agree with what you're saying at the bottom. Wasn't it said that all the best gear would be crafted? I'm not against chests and mobs dropping gear, but they should always drop craft-items like cloth, thread, scales or ores that can be made to enhance or create better gear.

Having all good gear Mob drop gear is a cop-out and is only catering to those who have been asking from day one to have it now now now.

Lately all these patches have been marginalizing crafters to the point where they deserve to lash out at least a little bit. Why buy gear when you can get decent gear from NM's? It's crap. Sure crafting can be fun but there are folks who do it to make gil, and to create armour for their friends. But when they can get it for free what's the use of leveling it?

but there are more folks who video game that dont enjoy dealing with crafting like the current crafting community wants. emphasizing crafting to the extent of it being required for the best gear is going to draw folks away from this game. MMO endgamers fight in dungeons for loot not mats, thats just how it is.
im not saying this game is ever going to steal players from any other MMO, but it certainly will not appeal to most non-FFXI players.

whats the use of leveling it? exactly though, the average MMO player does not want to level a craft as monotonous and slow to progress as the FFXIV craft system. im not saying crafting shouldnt exist, but i think in the end its the over all wrong idea to require crafting to allow a player to be geared at their best.

another thing they can do is make actual gear a much smaller drop rate and mats much higher. this would allow for players with bad luck for gear to at least slowly collect the mats and try obtaining it through someone crafting. and if they get their gear just by chance on first drop... then great! some people got kraken clubs on first drop, nothing to complain about there, chance effects everyone.

[Oscillate_Wildly]

but there are more folks who video game that dont enjoy dealing with crafting like the current crafting community wants. emphasizing crafting to the extent of it being required for the best gear is going to draw folks away from this game. MMO endgamers fight in dungeons for loot not mats, thats just how it is.
im not saying this game is ever going to steal players from any other MMO, but it certainly will not appeal to most non-FFXI players.

No, it might not but the game is suffering as it is and crapping over even a minority of players isn't going to help them in the long run. I'm not sure if that's something people generally research when it comes to MMO's but our market wards have been quite full and I don't think it'll be an issue here. You forget.
There are more DoH/L classes than there are combat classes, many people are leveling at least one or more, this isn't like XI where finding a crafter was a pain in the ass. This is a game where a majority of the players are leveling 1+ crafting class, finding a crafter at any time of the day shouldn't be a problem.

With the easy of leveling one anyhow, it most certainly won't be like XI where on your server only 1 person will be able to craft your Vermy.

[Dreadnought]

No, it might not but the game is suffering as it is and crapping over even a minority of players isn't going to help them in the long run. I'm not sure if that's something people generally research when it comes to MMO's but our market wards have been quite full and I don't think it'll be an issue here. You forget.
There are more DoH/L classes than there are combat classes, many people are leveling at least one or more, this isn't like XI where finding a crafter was a pain in the ass. This is a game where a majority of the players are leveling 1+ crafting class, finding a crafter at any time of the day shouldn't be a problem.

With the easy of leveling one anyhow, it most certainly won't be like XI where on your server only 1 person will be able to craft your Vermy.

i feel your talking about the games community as it is as to where im talking about the games direction of obtaining a future community which would be similar (not equal to) communities you see in other MMOs which do not empasize crafting.
alot of crafters right now bot (not all, but a good handful) and from my experience the majority of the rest do not respond. i have two linkshells that i recently joined, both have over a hundred people, neither are ever at all busy.
even if crafters are practically crawling up my bum i still dont see why it should be required for me to rely on them for everything im wearing.
i want to spend my time in the field destroying mobs and figuring out boss battles by spending hours and days doing so with people, not in town bartering with them. i think thats the general representation of the average MMO gamer that might be looking into picking this game up within the next few months, not the gamer that still plays FFXI. not saying you do, but like every MMO, this game should and will be advertised to the non-FFXI scene aswell.

[Oscillate_Wildly]

i feel your talking about the games community as it is as to where im talking about the games direction of obtaining a future community which would be similar (not equal to) communities you see in other MMOs which do not empasize crafting.
alot of crafters right now bot (not all, but a good handful) and from my experience the majority of the rest do not respond. i have two linkshells that i recently joined, both have over a hundred people, neither are ever at all busy.
even if crafters are practically crawling up my bum i still dont see why it should be required for me to rely on them for everything im wearing.
i want to spend my time in the field destroying mobs and figuring out boss battles by spending hours and days doing so with people, not in town bartering with them. i think thats the general representation of the average MMO gamer that might be looking into picking this game up within the next few months, not the gamer that still plays FFXI. not saying you do, but like every MMO, this game should and will be advertised to the non-FFXI scene aswell.

Unfortunately as it is, crafters and gatherers outnumber you as someone who combats, as a class they ought to be given something to do. Leatherworking, weaving, armourcraft and goldsmith all deal with providing people with gear. With the new materia system perhaps that will give us all more to do.

That still doesn't change the fact that these patches are marginalizing crafters to the point where mob-drop gear is better than normal quality gear. And that's ridiculous. From what it sounds like this might just be a you thing? I dunno, but my LS has plenty of crafters, we all like to help out, and I don't think it'd kill someone to wait a week before they get the gear they want. I especially find it even more rewarding once I've gathered all the pieces, the anticipating is what's really exciting.

Up until now it's been "I want it NOW" and no one is willing to wait. You aren't entitled to anything, and neither am I for this matter. I don't see why the selfishness and impatience of a handful of people should ruin the game for the rest of us trying to enjoy both combat experience and crafting experience. Crafting towards the goal of for once being able to make high ranking gear, that'd be a dream come true.

Have a bit of patience, if you blow through content too quickly for ready made and easily accessible gear then what? I saw within an hour and a half of the patch coming out someone with brand new gear just released. I hadn't even been in game long enough to check my retainers, and already I felt a little meh. Completionism is what's going to ruin this game. At least XI made some of their instanced and big group content fun with more than gear in mind. And the ones that were revolved around gear, at least it took time to acquire it rather than an hour.

Although yes, that is what it all boils down to isn't it? Gear? In which case, AF gear is definitely the route to go, hard to gather, and requiring a lot of skill, time, and patience. All this...instant acquire nonsense, kind of a load of bull. I don't see any problem with NM's and bosses to drop mats instead of finished gear. The current free roaming NM's do so and no one has really complained that much about it now.

[Dreadnought]

Unfortunately as it is, crafters and gatherers outnumber you as someone who combats, as a class they ought to be given something to do. Leatherworking, weaving, armourcraft and goldsmith all deal with providing people with gear. With the new materia system perhaps that will give us all more to do.

That still doesn't change the fact that these patches are marginalizing crafters to the point where mob-drop gear is better than normal quality gear. And that's ridiculous. From what it sounds like this might just be a you thing? I dunno, but my LS has plenty of crafters, we all like to help out, and I don't think it'd kill someone to wait a week before they get the gear they want. I especially find it even more rewarding once I've gathered all the pieces, the anticipating is what's really exciting.

Up until now it's been "I want it NOW" and no one is willing to wait. You aren't entitled to anything, and neither am I for this matter. I don't see why the selfishness and impatience of a handful of people should ruin the game for the rest of us trying to enjoy both combat experience and crafting experience. Crafting towards the goal of for once being able to make high ranking gear, that'd be a dream come true.

Have a bit of patience, if you blow through content too quickly for ready made and easily accessible gear then what? I saw within an hour and a half of the patch coming out someone with brand new gear just released. I hadn't even been in game long enough to check my retainers, and already I felt a little meh. Completionism is what's going to ruin this game. At least XI made some of their instanced and big group content fun with more than gear in mind. And the ones that were revolved around gear, at least it took time to acquire it rather than an hour.

Although yes, that is what it all boils down to isn't it? Gear? In which case, AF gear is definitely the route to go, hard to gather, and requiring a lot of skill, time, and patience. All this...instant acquire nonsense, kind of a load of bull. I don't see any problem with NM's and bosses to drop mats instead of finished gear. The current free roaming NM's do so and no one has really complained that much about it now.

lol again im not talking about the community right now, yeah there are toooons of crafters and maybe they do outnumber battlers right now.... im talking about drawing in new people.
the average new player not affiliated with FFXI will be largely put off by the dominance of crafting. that is the end of my point.