Frontlines and Wolf`s Den - A flawed desing doomed to fail.

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

Yes.

Since there is a good bunch of people correcting. I have to say sorry for my bad grammar, english is not my native language so, sorry for that desing that should be design. xD

Another topic about PvP and the upcoming Frontlines.

As it stands now, PvP is done by a small portion of the playerbase because really good reasons that are not simple "i dont like PvP" but are desing desicions made by the Dev Team that just disencourage people to participate from it. Here im talking about the mindbreaking grind of PvP ranks and Wolf Mark, which is the main reason for most players to not even try PvP cause, simply, no one has 500 hours of free (that if you are doing it "legal", fixed matches still take +100 hours) time to dedicate to a PvP activity, it simply puts you behind in all other content if you want to get a rank high enough to use the ilvl100 PvP set and to get the Wolf Marks needed for it.

And now, Frontlines come with another kind of bad thought desing that is made, one will think, for lore reasons but in fact, it just hinders the new system, because having so many restrictions in the process of changing GC makes it hard for people to organize and participate of the event as a group of players, instead, literally forces players to do Solo queue into a 24 vs 24 vs 24 battle arena... What is the sense of this desing choice? As stands now, the only justification for this, a very dishonest one by the way, would be: "We don`t want for ilvl100 pvp players (which already endured a hellish grind) to take advantage of their gear playing together so we made it like this for them to be forced to queue alone"

Well, that is because in the first place, Dev Team made the PvP gear and ranks to be such a long grind that simply disencouraged most of the people (this outside the point if you like PvP or not) and now you are going to punish those who endured it?!

PvP is not played because grind is excesive for a PvP activity, which only makes the grind longer for players who are not into fixed matches and btw, makes fixed matches totally an alternative, in fact, almost a necessity if you want that PvP Rank and Wolf Marks.

Frontlines will not be played because players have to face too many restrictions and even lose their PvP rank in somesituations if you want to play, you know, an MMORPG, with another people. Im crazy ok? i think playing with other people and having fun with them is crucial in an MMORPG, but the hell i will know.

After the long criticism, a few direction changes will solve this 2 problems that as stands right now, are just desing issues which are killing PvP and will, in 7 days, kill Fronlines which, right as Wolf`s Den, will be born dead.

PvP Changes.

Reduce the Rank and Wolf Mark grind. By a lot. The ilvl100, warwolf and direwolf gear sets should be something to obtain during 2 weeks at max, not 3 months of grinding. This will encourage people to participate because they will have access to the PvP gear quickly, so they will feel rewarded and will balance the PvP since people will be actually geared for it, even more, it will make fixed matched dissapear... Because, honestly, we want to have fun, fixed matches were just born because of the grind is insane and there is not enough people playing the thing just because of that.

GC Changes.

Make the PvP rank universal no matter what GC you run for. Yes, i know about the archivements being independent for each GC, but make it so, for example, the highest GC rank is the one which counts for equiping gear, so, you can keep using your ilvl100 or Direwolf sets in Frontlines even if you change of GC to play with your friends and at the same time, you still have to play PvP to rise the ranks on other GC to get the archivements and titles.

Besides this, make GC changes more easy going, 30 days cooldown is ridiculous, even the 15 days just because the Frontlines coming is bad and just damages the whole point of playing together, make it 7 days, just like if it was a weekly trial, so groups of players can change their alliance each week depending on how they feel and are not punished by it.

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Remember, we players, want to have fun. If you force into us long grinds, force us to lose our progress (PvP Rank) or not be able to play with our archivements (PvP gear) in order to play with our friends (the whole point of an MMORPG) then we are not having fun. Is in fact, a bit of an insult to people who has been paying for your game and expecting big things from you Dev Team.

Fronlines can be saved, Wolf`s Den can be resurrected. But Dev Team needs to reconsider their desing choices here. One thing is for sure. Players are not having fun in PvP and players will not have fun playing Fronlines.


Some answers.

I'm hyped for Frontlines, and i'm primarily a solo player so I am glad you can que solo for it without being disadvantaged :-)

He is putting a good point. Solo players will have not a single disadvantage with how the system is going to be implemented. Thats a good point in favor of SE actual position and desing choice. Now, from this kind of good post one can discuss seriously, with well thought ideas being properly presented. Not just pure white knighting because SE is the only good and does good to me.

And over this point, i could only argue. Solo players are a minority, even if we don`t know the exact numbers, we know most players play raid content, party content and group content in general. So, while being more than fair for a solo player, lets say, for a FC of 50 members which are spread across all 3 diferent GCs and now have to change and some of them maybe lose progress, hours of game, just to play with their friends inside their FC this new content... That is terrible.

To put an example for PvE players that doesnt know much of PvP: Is something like this. Everytime a player in SBCoB wants to help their FC mates in the BCoB he loses all his tracked progress through the SBCoB, cant return to the SBCoB for 30 days and will not be able to use his High Allagan gear set in the BCoB. Sounds fun? fair? practical? logic? player friendly?

Did everyone forget morale won't work in Frontlines? So PvP gear isn't needed. x.X

Yeah, the Wolves' Den is bad tho, but I think it'll just be forgotten. No job restrictions on Frontlines should make the queues so fast when you don't have to wait for tanks or healers, plus the rewards of soldiery, mythology and alexandrites might make people actually do it. Sure it's also sad you can't fight with friends affiliated with another GC than you but I can live with it. I'll fight against them, instead. It's still fun, yes?

Oh we know. But still isn`t fair to see your PvP rank (which is a grind as long as your gear to get) reseted because you are forced to change GC. Besides, the post has 2 main purposes:

1.- Adress how restrictive and damaging is the Frontlines accesibility for PvP players and organized parties.
2.- Adress how long and booring is the Wolf`s Den grind and how it killed PvP, forcing players to do fixed matches and disencouraging players to participate from it.

The link between both issues is the PvP Rank.

So you people are telling me, people who just so happen picked the same GC as their friends are able to play together. And for people who picked the different GC are being isolated to solo queue is a great idea?

And before you tell me I can change to any GC, I don't want to lose my PVP ranks. The grind is already ridiculously long, and I don't want to lose my progress. Should I be punished because I play the game legitly? Oh yes let's do that.

Both things are mayor issues coming along this desing decission.

Again there are valid points in your argument that I agree with such as exp and wolf marks take too long to get and the grind turns people off. However I don't believe GCs should be changeable as easily as you want it to be. To me it's a FF game first and an mmo second, and I think that decisions you make should carry some weight. If they are lowering it from 30 days then cool but 7 days seems too little to me.

You know, having a long lockout will not be a problem if for example. Instead of just having 1 PvP rank active (for example right now, Twin Adder) i just have the 3 GC PvP ranks ALWAYS activated. For example.

Maelstrom: PvP Rank lv.4
Twin Adder: PvP Rank lv.40
Immortal Flames: PvP Rank lv.10

Lets say those are my PvP ranks and im, because for Frontlines all my friends accorded to play for the Maelstrom, in the Maelstrom. Ok, i will deal with the 30 or 15 days lockout, but let me use my PvP gear of lv 40 rank. I already reached it, i already got the marks, i already endured 300 hours of gameplay. Ok, i give it, 15 days lockout, why not. But not being able to use my PvP gear during those 15 days till i rise my PvP rank for the Maelstrom to 40 is... Ridiculous to say the least.

Alexander_Dragonfang, the content is already planned and ready for shipment, they will not make any changes now and developers hardly ever take feedback before the players experience content, this thread is pointless.

Note that I do agree with your point, fully, but devs won't agree until content is here and 100% sure about that.

Devs value metrics a lot higher than player opinion, they operate under "players don't know what they want" (and they are right about that), that's why when you don't like a content you shouldn't stop at just voicing your opinion, you should avoid doing it as well, their metrics will tell them when/if there's something wrong.

Thank you for your support! And i completely agree. Making developers understand and change their form to see is almost an impossible thing to do, but i keep my faith in that "almost" one day, will favor the players. And yes, sincerely i would love to be wrong, but since Frontlines will probably die after all PvE players get their mount, and by not having PvP players participating of said content, developers will notice their mistake and change some things arround. After all they made 1.0 into 2.0. They can mend their mistakes completely, is just a bit discouraging to see the lack of foresight they have. Punishing PvP players for playing PvP content... One wonders, what they are expecting to happen?


Players should not be punished for chosing to play with friends nor to play certain content. Thats whats happening right now and thats what the whole issue is.