Zodiac weapon 2.3?

**blowfin** · 07-02-2014 05:16 PM

Looking back, the Allagan Weapons were i90, the same as the Relic weapons which resulted in players feeling that there is no incentive to grind out for the Allagan Weapon (except for min maxing the sec stats) and thus they revised it to i95. The same strategy was adopted for the High Allagan weapon. I believe it is a fair approach since the HA weapon is the only tangible reward and "trophy" to show for beating the toughest boss in game (which other games probably have a leaderboard or other more tangible rewards).

Yes but that was quite a different situation. They were on par right from the start, this has not been the case with 2.2. Consider it this way, by offering an upgrade before 2.4 it will encourage Coil raiders to finally go out and do their Novus weapons. By that stage a lot of people will be saturated with coil gear and will be looking for things to do. A new BiS weapon is exactly the right kind of motivation to keep that set of players busy until 2.4.

yeah, coil weapons are faster and easier..

That's one of my rationales for this train of thought. As peple get more geared and experienced in Coil2, HA weapons are actually becoming much easier to get. Hence why I think 2.35 or whatever it ends up being should push Novus, the amount of work that has gone into them kind of demands it by that point.

Who knows though, maybe Ramuh EX will have BiS weapons for 2.3... lol.

**Ooshima** · 07-02-2014 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by blowfin

Yes but that was quite a different situation. They were on par right from the start, this has not been the case with 2.2. Consider it this way, by offering an upgrade before 2.4 it will encourage Coil raiders to finally go out and do their Novus weapons. By that stage a lot of people will be saturated with coil gear and will be looking for things to do. A new BiS weapon is exactly the right kind of motivation to keep that set of players busy until 2.4.

I don't really mind personally. I mean I do both, I'm a collector guy. But to say Relic will become stronger than the weapon dropped by the toughest boss in the same patch will be difficult to swallow, and difficult for SE to explain and justify for. Because coil weapon is really a reward thingy (that's the sole reason why they make it 5 ilvl higher).

A more plausible balancing would be making Relic SAME ilvl as the coil weapon, but it would be quite a grindy process to get, but with enough benefits to do so. SE broke the stat cost rule with the Novus, making the Novus capable of being better than Gerolt's weapon by a small margin via secondary stats. However, the benefits aren't too broken to make it overly powerful. I think it is a nice first-step, and thus it may happen that the eventual relic be the same ilvl as the coil weapon with ability to customize stats.

I think this would be eventually fair. If SE is going to make them change the appearance totally, with the lore saying it is the weapons that the Zodiac Twelves used and probably carry the names of legendary weapons such as Gungnir, Excalibur etc, then it must be worth that name and lore. Allowing it to become i135 in its final state, the same ilvl as the 3rd coil weapon would be, would be fair enough. The advanced raiders would still clear the final turn and get their weapons before the majority could complete their final form of Relic anyways, and this would put everyone on an slightly more even field with the expansion pack (if we assume after 3rd coil is expansion).

But having the Relic to become i120 before 2.4, I'd say highly unlikely. It would already come as a surprise if it'd become i115 before 2.4, say 2.35/2.38, IMO.

Originally Posted by blowfin

Who knows though, maybe Ramuh EX will have BiS weapons for 2.3... lol.

Ramuh EX is confirmed to be i100 accessories and rare chance of i100 weapon

**JonBigwood** · 07-02-2014 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by blowfin

As peple get more geared and experienced in Coil2, HA weapons are actually becoming much easier to get.

As long as there is a weekly cap in Second Coil, the High Allagan weapons will remain difficult or very difficult to obtain. I think it unlikely that there will be an upgrade for the Zodiac weapons before another better end game drop is also there. It seems also a given that the relic will always be a bit worse than the best end game drop.

**blowfin** · 07-02-2014 05:19 PM

I don't think (could be wrong) anyone would argue that a Zodiac weapon being slightly more powerful than HA (or equivalent at the time) would be terrible so long as the HA (or equivalent) were on top for 3+ months.

Exactly, if we are to see a Novus update in 2.35 (sic) it will mean HA weapons have been BiS for nearly 6 months.

The question is, at what point do SE think we've put in enough work to make Novus BiS?

**ClaireAbigail** · 07-02-2014 05:20 PM

I think we'll get a filler upgrade to match it with the ilvl 115 weapons(probably on 2.45) then the 3rd coil would come out then have relic up to ilvl120 and the 3rd coil weapons would be i125(ALL PURE GUESSES)

**Nutz** · 07-02-2014 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

I think we'll get a filler upgrade to match it with the ilvl 115 weapons(probably on 2.45) then the 3rd coil would come out then have relic up to ilvl120 and the 3rd coil weapons would be i125(ALL PURE GUESSES)

Barring some sort of severe delay Coil 3 will be out in 2.4 with weapons at ilvl 135. I have no idea why the developers always play coy with the numbers. They're terribly predictable and becoming even more so. As such, 2.45 should at the very least pull Zodiac weapons up to 120, in line with (potentially NQ if they go that route) Shiva weapons. Obviously this is speculative, but the devs have been following a fairly simple pattern with the 2.x updates.

**blowfin** · 07-02-2014 06:01 PM

But to say Relic will become stronger than the weapon dropped by the toughest boss in the same patch will be difficult to swallow, and difficult for SE to explain and justify for. Because coil weapon is really a reward thingy (that's the sole reason why they make it 5 ilvl higher).

I don't see any problem with Novus having a month or two at the top before 2.4 and Coil3 hits. As I said people will be saturated with weapons, and coil2 will get nerfed shortly afterwards, making it much much easier to get i115, they will become mid tier weapons like Allagan became in 2.2. At that point (2.4) Novus really does need to trump HA, otherwise it will be a joke. Sure there will be some delicious tears shed by people who never bothered to upgrade their relic, but I won't be one of them.

If they're to maintain the previous pattern (everybody seems convinced they will) then Novus should be 5 levels above HA in 2.4.

Ramuh EX is confirmed to be i100 accessories and rare chance of i100 weapon

Ah, my bad, I should have known that.

**Ooshima** · 07-02-2014 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by blowfin

I don't see any problem with Novus having a month or two at the top before 2.4 and Coil3 hits. As I said people will be saturated with weapons, and coil2 will get nerfed shortly afterwards, making it much much easier to get i115, they will become mid tier weapons like Allagan became in 2.2. At that point (2.4) Novus really does need to trump HA, otherwise it will be a joke. Sure there will be some delicious tears shed by people who never bothered to upgrade their relic, but I won't be one of them.

If they're to maintain the previous pattern (everybody seems convinced they will) then Novus should be 5 levels above HA in 2.4.

Well, you and I wouldn't mind of course. It's an upgrade, I'd take it anytime, just a matter to see if the upgrade is worth to rush for (I rushed for Animus, but didn't do so for Novus).

Reason why everybody are convinced that SE will maintain is because they hardly break traditions, and if they do, it won't be drastic stuff. They are pretty much slow progressive in nature, with alot of repeated contents and stuff while trying to try little things at a step. Which is the reason why I believe that the next update will be a skeletal update to i120 in preparation to be in its final form, whether it is i130 or i135, we won't know.

Well, which is something you've noticed as well.

**Monoclonal** · 07-03-2014 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by AlyssaFhey

I think people are downplaying the time investment relic weapons are. It is definitely easier to learn T6-T9, then to do the relic quest line. That said, the greatest difficulty with coil lies in getting 7 people other people have have a similar schedule to yourself.

sorry, no offense here , but TIME is not skill and not difficulty. Time is well just time. Time investment not equal to skill investment.

The way you talk also down-playing people time/skill/dedication to beat coil. I can also say the same thing to you that the greatest difficulty to do relic is sit brainlessly in front of computer make ur self clicking mouse while watching netflix so u called this harder than beat coil ?

If just find 7 people then everyone magically can beat coil then we will see a lot more people run around with HA weapon. This one statement you said can really piss most raider off and make me firmly believe that you never raid.

**Ooshima** · 07-03-2014 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Monoclonal

Kind of disagree, well Faster yes , easier BIG NO. Even if you have the skill to beat T7,8 while asleep and T9 by halfsleep or no matter how those fights are so easy to you , since there is nothing that consider hard or difficult in atma --> animus --> novus quest line. It's pure luck and grind.

Not sure how to respond to this, but faster and easier is about the same to me in this context. I mean.. once it's on farm it is just about getting the UAT and ToS and tada you get a i100 weap and upgradable to i110 in one simple step which is Sands.. certainly "easier" than dealing with RNG and grind. So sick of Brayflox SR now

Originally Posted by AlyssaFhey

I think people are downplaying the time investment relic weapons are. It is definitely easier to learn T6-T9, then to do the relic quest line. That said, the greatest difficulty with coil lies in getting 7 people other people have have a similar schedule to yourself.

Really? So many statics out there. So getting 7 other people isn't tough. But even if you get 7 people, are you sure all 7 of you are good? How many of these statics have managed to clear T9 by now/before Patch 2.3?

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