Possible Paladin Rework...

[Kitru]

And it wasn't the real point I was trying to make. The imbalance is AoE threat and damage, where the PLD is currently thoroughly outclassed by the WAR in both areas. PLD could really use some love there.

PLD isn't really outclassed by WAR for AoE threat. AoE damage, definitely, but not threat (PLD has worse burst AoE enmity, but, over time, it's basically a wash; and PLD can actually maintain AoE enmity for longer than to Flashes' negligible cost). Flash is weaker than either SC or Overpower on a per use basis, but, as has been said over and over and over again, Flash is basically free: it costs MP rather than TP, and it doesn't even cost that much MP (you can spam 9-10 Flashes before you run out of mp and it will have no effect upon your ST rotation viability whatsoever). The lower effectiveness of Flash on a per use basis is the price you pay for having an AoE enmity generator that you can spam with no concern at all.

It's getting kind of old to see PLDs whinging on about Flash and about how amazing Overpower is when they're completely ignoring the fact that Overpower is expensive as hell which is *why* it's so strong.

[Dinivas]

The Oaths

For the love of god take these off the GCD. Maybe its just me but sometimes wasting a GCD to put these up can cost me precious seconds. Also maybe take off the MP cost as it unfair a WAR can just die res go defiance like he never died and a PLD has to wait or pop and either to get back into a stance.

This is a moot point as of 2.3. Defiance and Oath buffs don't get cancelled when you die anymore.

Let's be crazy. Sword Oath add's emnity to circle of scorn and increases damage, but doesn't increase defense or received healing. You now have a tank that can continue to be what it is now, or for people looking to have a bit more fun it can be a stance dancer. Switch to Sword oath when Circle of Scorn is up for that aoe threat gen, and to increase damage your doing, then switch back to shield oath for the defense and increase shield abilities.

This is an interesting idea, but it's just as simple to give CoS an enmity modifier on either the initial damage or the DoT as it is to micromanage Oaths. It's the only real AoE a PLD has and the fact that it lacks a real enmity modifier when Overpower and Steel Cyclone both have bonus enmity is why they suffer from weaker burst AoE threat. A WAR can go in, use Overpower and Steel Cyclone, and not have to worry about enmity. A PLD has to rely on Flash spam after the initial FoF/CoS and hope DPS don't get a proc or trigger happy. The reliance on Flash is why I made the switch early on from PLD to WAR. Overpower may be more expensive, but you don't have to rely on it to hold enmity in AoE situations.

I'm not suggesting PLD and WAR need to play the same, but PLD needs something to make AoE situations more bearable.

[Sipherous]

These are a few changes, some might be better balanced than others but would give PLD's a more variable play style. Tempered will is my only iffy skill as its a GLAD skill rather than a PLD one. PLD's were better balanced at the start of ARR but now I think they are to focused on one direct play style. Just food for thought yell at me if you want or add to the pool lets see where she goes.

[Thaliss]

you can edit one post to bypass 1000 character limit.

[Sipherous]

honestly didn't know that lol, don't use the forums to often :/

[Souljacker]

The forum character limit is a joke and should be removed.

On-topic, ANYTHING that helps paladin out is a step in the right direction. There's a handful of folks here who always step into these threads and declare gladiator\paladin perfectly tuned, but the sad fact is that Warriors have it much easier from start to finish in terms of threat generation and just general smooth-feeling\performing skills and Paladin could use some help.

[Giantbane]

The forum character limit is a joke and should be removed.

On-topic, ANYTHING that helps paladin out is a step in the right direction. There's a handful of folks here who always step into these threads and declare gladiator\paladin perfectly tuned, but the sad fact is that Warriors have it much easier from start to finish in terms of threat generation and just general smooth-feeling\performing skills and Paladin could use some help.

PLD generates more single target enmity than a warrior. The only thing a WAR does better is initial burst threat if you stack all your buffs and do 3x BB combos. But the PLD catches back up eventually.

The only real place where the WAR is obviously better than a PLD is AoE threat and AoE damage. WAR crushes PLD in a very real way in this area to the point of it not being even remotely balanced. PLD could use a boost in both areas. They don't have to be equal to a WAR in AoE threat and damage, but it should be closer than it is.

Shield swipe being only marginally useful, shield bash interrupting combos, oaths being on the GCD and interrupting combos are all areas where the PLD could use some love, but it doesn't make them broken by any stretch of the imagination.

[Kitru]

PLD generates more single target enmity than a warrior. The only thing a WAR does better is initial burst threat if you stack all your buffs and do 3x BB combos. But the PLD catches back up eventually.

Actually, it doesn't. A WAR doing the proper UBIR will consistently stay ahead of a PLD as long as they keep doing their UBIR every 2 mins. UBIR just generates *that much* enmity. UBIR generates an absolutely massive cushion. Even if PLD generates more ePot/GCD outside of UBIR, the UBIR cushion is big enough to more than make up for that.

[Synestra]

Shield swipe being only marginally useful, shield bash interrupting combos, oaths being on the GCD and interrupting combos are all areas where the PLD could use some love, but it doesn't make them broken by any stretch of the imagination.

This is true as PLD will get its job done, tho this does not mean its totally finished as it is now. Some skills just feels kinda unfinished and that we even miss some skills(Riot Blade combo for example), some kind of alternative combo rotation that uses MP would be usefull for example. Stances being off-GCD would be awesome QoL increase and changing Shield Swipe to mini-overpower with reduced potency should balance PLD and WAR lil bit in AoE situations, oh and Cover should also work on magic damage. I hope we will see more utility for paladins when expansion comes as i personally see PLD's as an utility tanks and WAR's as raw damage tanks

[Jubez187]

changing Shield Swipe to mini-overpower with reduced potency should balance PLD and WAR lil bit in AoE situations

IMO shield swipe is fine. But the fact NOTHING of threat can be pacified is not. Imagine popping bulwark at the right time to get a pacify to negate some of Ifrit EX's Supp stacks? That would be a fun gameplay paradigm.