Possible Paladin Rework...

[Brannigan]

Paladin is a fun class that has a lot of great tools and can use almost all of its skills effectively... in 4 man dungeons. However, in most 8 man content, Paladin loses a lot of buttons. I think that that, combined paladin having a lot of abilities that either have the same basic function (for example, Rampart/Bulwark/Sentinel/Foresight all reduce damage) or have limited usefulness, make the job fall behind in some areas. Paladin functions well as a tank, and it doesn't need a complete overhaul, but I think a few small changes would make it a lot more fun to play. Abilities I think could use a second look are:

Flash - loses blind effect in 8 man content (with a few exceptions).
Shield Swipe - loses Pacify effect in 8 man content (again, with exceptions), and doesn't work on a lot of 4 man stuff either. The damage increase from using the skill is a bit underwhelming. When you consider that this WS is one of the few "reaction" abilities in the game, it seems really lacking.
Shield Bash - Can't stun most stuff in 8 man. Other class stuns are off-gcd extra attacks. While I'd like to keep Bash on-gcd, I think this skill could be used creatively
Bulwark - The 60% block rate increase for this skill seems like it was just arbitrarily decided. Defensive cooldowns need to be reliable to deal with the big attacks in this game (Flatten, Ravensbeak, Death Sentence).
Tempered Will - Good, but too situation-dependent.
Awareness - This skill has always been bad. Final Coil and Shiva have abilities that were designed to make you want to use it, but it's still pretty bad. Also, it takes up a trait slot.
Riot Blade - Paladin's MP basically goes to three sources: Oaths, Stoneskin, and Flash. Of the three, really only Stoneskin should be done often enough in 8 man content to warrant an MP regen ability. Paladin is the only melee class with the ability to regenerate its own MP, but it doesn't even really use it. This is a huge wasted opportunity, IMO. Warrior has Wrath, paladin should have MP.


This is all just spitballing, and I don't expect anything even remotely like this to be implemented, but I'd like to see stuff along the lines of:

Shield Swipe allowing you to ignore the Shield Oath penalty for a short time (like 1-2 GCDs) after use.
The ability to use Shield Bash for extra damage in some way, with the limiting factor being its extreme TP cost.
Tempered Will getting a greatly reduced cooldown, or granting immunity to bind/heavy for the duration
Bulwark being more reliable and on a much shorter cooldown. Maybe something like 100% block rate for one attack on a 45s-1m cooldown.
More reasons to use MP in general. Riot Blade should be used regularly in our rotation. Alternatively - and this is a straight up nerf - move the STR debuff to Riot Blade.

Right now paladin's biggest weakness is damage dealt while tanking, and changes like those might help address it somewhat, while also making the class more interactive. Anyway, this is all pie-in-the-sky stuff, but with the expansion coming I do think it's important to point out areas where classes can be improved when it comes to core gameplay. Even if paladin ends up underpowered (or overpowered, or just right) in the expansion, I'd really like to be able to use more of my buttons in high end content.

[Krr]

2c as I'm not really a tank main nor theorycrafter for tanks, but I think the main issue with PLD isn't that it's bad at much (other than single-target damage) mechanically...

But there's something to be said for the fact that 90% of the time you're a one-combo job with an AOE button, some Off-GCDs, and a bundle of defensive cooldowns that aren't very exciting or interactive to use (compare timing Sentinel with managing Wrath/Infuriate/et al to get Inner Beast out in response to an incoming Big Attack, etc.)

[Cetonis]

Paladin is a fun class that has a lot of great tools and can use almost all of its skills effectively... in 4 man dungeons. However, in most 8 man content, Paladin loses a lot of buttons. I think that that, combined paladin having a lot of abilities that either have the same basic function (for example, Rampart/Bulwark/Sentinel/Foresight all reduce damage) or have limited usefulness, make the job fall behind in some areas. Paladin functions well as a tank, and it doesn't need a complete overhaul, but I think a few small changes would make it a lot more fun to play. Abilities I think could use a second look are:

Flash - loses blind effect in 8 man content (with a few exceptions).
Shield Swipe - loses Pacify effect in 8 man content (again, with exceptions), and doesn't work on a lot of 4 man stuff either. The damage increase from using the skill is a bit underwhelming. When you consider that this WS is one of the few "reaction" abilities in the game, it seems really lacking.
Shield Bash - Can't stun most stuff in 8 man. Other class stuns are off-gcd extra attacks. While I'd like to keep Bash on-gcd, I think this skill could be used creatively
Bulwark - The 60% block rate increase for this skill seems like it was just arbitrarily decided. Defensive cooldowns need to be reliable to deal with the big attacks in this game (Flatten, Ravensbeak, Death Sentence).
Tempered Will - Good, but too situation-dependent.
Awareness - This skill has always been bad. Final Coil and Shiva have abilities that were designed to make you want to use it, but it's still pretty bad. Also, it takes up a trait slot.
Riot Blade - Paladin's MP basically goes to three sources: Oaths, Stoneskin, and Flash. Of the three, really only Stoneskin should be done often enough in 8 man content to warrant an MP regen ability. Paladin is the only melee class with the ability to regenerate its own MP, but it doesn't even really use it. This is a huge wasted opportunity, IMO. Warrior has Wrath, paladin should have MP.


This is all just spitballing, and I don't expect anything even remotely like this to be implemented, but I'd like to see stuff along the lines of:

Shield Swipe allowing you to ignore the Shield Oath penalty for a short time (like 1-2 GCDs) after use.
The ability to use Shield Bash for extra damage in some way, with the limiting factor being its extreme TP cost.
Tempered Will getting a greatly reduced cooldown, or granting immunity to bind/heavy for the duration
Bulwark being more reliable and on a much shorter cooldown. Maybe something like 100% block rate for one attack on a 45s-1m cooldown.
More reasons to use MP in general. Riot Blade should be used regularly in our rotation. Alternatively - and this is a straight up nerf - move the STR debuff to Riot Blade.

Right now paladin's biggest weakness is damage dealt while tanking, and changes like those might help address it somewhat, while also making the class more interactive. Anyway, this is all pie-in-the-sky stuff, but with the expansion coming I do think it's important to point out areas where classes can be improved when it comes to core gameplay. Even if paladin ends up underpowered (or overpowered, or just right) in the expansion, I'd really like to be able to use more of my buttons in high end content.

Lots of good points here.

Aside from the lack of skill variety, one of my larger gripes is that the gain in potency you get by using Shield Swipe is a borderline joke.

The average potency of your core combo is 203, and Swipe lets you trade one of those GCDs off for... 210? I know, every little bit helps, and I know, TP savings, but it just feels so unrewarding when it's one of the rare opportunities to play PLD "better" damage-wise.

Because more random ideas are always fun, what might hit multiple bases with only a couple changes might be:

- Shield Swipe reimagined as a "magic" attack that costs MP (enough to make you want to weave in Riot Blade sometimes in long fights)
- Shield Oath penalty only applies to autoattacks and weaponskills (i.e. not Spirits, Scorn or new Swipe)

Like most things here it's not gonna happen because reasons, but yeah.