Possible Paladin Rework...

[Kitru]

Your first statement was that WAR doesnt generate as much threat as PLD. You then went on to contradict yourself that a war indeed does generate more threat.

Apparently you don't really understand qualifying statements. Do you also have problems seeing shades of grey?

I have always said that the only way that a WAR generates more than a PLD is if the WAR uses their CDs properly. This is because, if you simply use everyone on CD for both tanks, using the appropriate high enmity rotation, a PLD generates noticeably more enmity/GCD than a WAR does. However, if you use the proper UBIR rotation rather than simply using everything on CD, the synergistic effects of said CD usage provides a large enough increase in enmity generation that it will eclipse the PLDs previous advantage.

I'm also quite curious as to how you still think that your posted images are even *remotely* applicable, beyond evidence that you really have no place being in this discussion in the first place.

[Daniolaut]

Apparently you don't really understand qualifying statements. Do you also have problems seeing shades of grey?

I have always said that the only way that a WAR generates more than a PLD is if the WAR uses their CDs properly. This is because, if you simply use everyone on CD for both tanks, using the appropriate high enmity rotation, a PLD generates noticeably more enmity/GCD than a WAR does. However, if you use the proper UBIR rotation rather than simply using everything on CD, the synergistic effects of said CD usage provides a large enough increase in enmity generation that it will eclipse the PLDs previous advantage.

I'm also quite curious as to how you still think that your posted images are even *remotely* applicable, beyond evidence that you really have no place being in this discussion in the first place.

On what grounds do you stand to make that statement. Simply saying some random bull crap numbers means nothing, when i have solid ingame information where WAR has more str and deals more damage than a PLD. Simply saying "auto attack" doesnt mean youre some holy saint and anyone holding a conversation in this thread is not permitted to speak.

Seriously you cant be helped nor even capable of holding a conversation.

If you were in fact right that 'overtime' pld generates more threat, i could care less because, you,
1: neglected to say how much time.
2: didnt state why, simply beyond saying "PLD's auto attack" and disregarding my statement about WAR's str bonus and crit bonus
3: and only made adolescent verbal attacks that only encouraged me to further want to disregard anything you have to say at all.

I did the opposite, I

1. Gave my opinion
2. attempted to stay on the threads topic
3. even used ingame stats and even pictures to help you follow along

If anyone doesnt belong here its you because you've done nothing but to stay off topic, argue, and insult other peoples opinions and ideas.

[SeraviEdalborez]

stuff

The novel thing about debates is that not everyone has to agree with you. And you can be wrong.

What I see is that you've seen a point of view and discarded it as irrelevant because it doesn't fit your perception of what these jobs do, regardless of what actually happens.

PLD does generate more enmity if both are using no cooldowns (stupid), or using cooldowns on cooldown. On an extremely basic level this is really evident why: WAR has to spend combos refreshing Maim, and occasionally spend a GCD on Inner Beast. Neither of which have an enmity modified (Defiance's innate enmity+ doesn't count because we're comparing it to PLD's identical enmity modifier on Shield Oath). Hate combo is 1x 3x 5x (total 9x) enmity modifier on the 3 moves. Non-hate is all 1x 1x 1x (total 3x).

So say a WAR refreshes maim every 3rd combo. We will even assume Maim is already up when we begin, so all WAR modifiers have 20% more damage:
WAR: SP>BB>BB - (3*1.2)>(9*1.2)*2 = 25.2
PLD: H>H>H - (9*3) = 27

PLD has generated 27x enmity modifier, WAR has generated 25.2x. WAR's "raw" enmity generation is worse than PLD.

Can break it down a step further and just apply that enmity modifier to total potency of those combos:

WAR: [(150+190+250) + (150+200+280)*2] *25.2 = 30744
PLD: [(150+200+260)*3] *27 = 49410

Where WAR gains the lead is smart use of Unchained Berserk (and no, smart use of cooldowns is not something automatically assumed because I rarely see any WARs use their burst opener properly). Unchained takes away their 25% damage reduction. Berserk is +50% attack power (not the same as FoF's "damage dealt", and slightly less potent). So using lazy and inaccurate math on my part:

(25.2*1.5)/.75 = 50.4

Even after accounting losing 1-2 GCDs to Pacify afterwards, it's pretty evident how WAR enmity explodes with proper usage.

You dismissed evidence against your claim because you didn't agree with it. Please think about it yourself before you reply again.

[Shref]

WAR: SP>BB>BB - (3*1.2)>(9*1.2)*2 = 25.2
PLD: H>H>H - (9*3) = 27

unless i misunderstand how the modifiers work, this math sounds very wrong.
you wouldn't simply add the modifiers in a combo. assuming my sources are right, from the combos you listed it would be:

WAR: (150+190+270)+1.2(150+3(100)+5(280))+1.2(150+3(100)+5(280)))=1.2(610+2220+2220)=5050
PLD: 3(150+3(100)+5(260))=3(150+300+1300)=4950

given, this doesn't factor in things like overpower/unchained/SC/Flash/Berserk for war or FoF/CoS/Flash for PLD. Or things like increased crits from defiance and IR or reduced slashing resistance from SP. but for being simple/lazy math, i believe its accurate.