Quote Originally Posted by Giantbane View Post
you can just stand there and refresh TP and still have a threat lead.
This is my point entirely. WAR, to recover from Overpower spam, has to stand around doing nothing, whether they're in an ST or AoE scenario. PLD can keep just keep attacking because they don't use MP for anything else (Stoneskin, but you're not going to be using that in an AoE scenario).

And there is a benefit to having it be TP based. For groups where you get a little break in between, TP restores much faster than MP.
You only get back 50 TP/GCD in combat and 100 TP/GCD back while out of combat. You're consuming TP every single GCD that you're attacking while you have Overpower so, unless you specifically stand there and do nothing during combat, the only recovery you have available to you is out of combat because even your ST rotation is a net TP/loss with each GCD.

PLDs only get back 1.67% of their max mp every GCD, but the only time they use MP is via Flash. When they are not Flashing, whether they're running to the next group or using their RoH combo, they are regenerating MP ,and it only takes 7 GCDs while in combat or 2.4 GCDs outside of combat to recover enough for a single Flash.

Consuming TP is not an "advantage" that Overpower has. It's an explicit disadvantage because the only way WAR can offset the consumption is by not doing anything. PLD recovers MP no matter what they're doing and can increase that significantly by using Riot Blade.

Consider this: a WAR and PLD both use Overpower 8 times at the start of combat. This puts the WAR at 360 TP and the PLD at ~5% MP. For the next combat, they both need to get back to full resources in order to AoE spam again.

WAR gets back 50 TP/GCD while in combat, 100 TP outside of combat, but will consume 55.73 TP/GCD by doing their ST rotation and using their Wrath consumer immediately (net 5.73 TP/GCD loss). So, if they stand around doing nothing while in combat, they'll get back to full in 13 GCDs; if they continue attacking, they'll require 7-8 GCDs while out of combat. It's basically one or the other (mixing and matching isn't really efficient).

PLD gets back 1.67% of max mp/GCD passively, while in combat, 5% per GCD while outside of combat (out of combat MP regen is tripled), and 9% back with each use of Riot Blade (not counting the passive regen). A PLD will require 57 GCDs of RoH spam, 16 GCDs of Riot Blade spam (2 GCDs each; 9% + 1.67% + 1.67% = 12.33% per Riot Blade; 95 / 12.33 = 7.7), or 19 GCDs while out of combat. No matter what, a PLD is doing *something* at all times.

Basically, WAR is better when you've got medium sized windows of out of combat regeneration (too short and they haven't regained enough TP; too long and the PLD would have gotten to full as well) and fights that are too short for PLD to recover with Riot Blade (i.e. less than 24 GCDs, e.g. 1 minute), but PLD is better when you need to actually be doing stuff constantly (especially when you have to alternate between ST and AoE: WAR will kill its TP and not be able to swap to ST while the PLD will have no issues whatsoever).

Both of them are entirely functional for massed AoE pulling; you're just used WAR.

WAR has the advantage if you split groups up at all and don't pull everything.
No, WAR has the advantage when groups die super fast (so that PLD doesn't have the opportunity to throw Riot Blades) and you're able to get away with standing around doing nothing. It has nothing to do with group size because, once you've hit a certain threshold, it's just a question of how many AoEs it takes to kill one target (since that'll be enough to kill every target).

I'm not saying that PLD needs the same AoE killing power and threat gen as the WAR, but there should be more parity.
There already *is* reasonable parity for the AoE resource consumption/regeneration and enmity generation between the two tanks (keep in mind, I said "reasonable parity" not "absolute parity"; WAR can definitely throw out AoE, especially if they know they're going to be able to stand around without issue afterwards). What you're missing is that WAR and PLD do not have the same resource paradigm concerning their AoEs, and you're so used to the WAR paradigm that you can't recognize how the PLD one works or what advantages it holds.