Possible Paladin Rework...

[RayneBoemir]

They just need to make paladin have more abilities like a warrior does I leveled a warrior and stopped playing my paladin because it's so boring now compared to my warrior.

[Menae]

I don't really understand why getting less str is a problem.

Paladin at i90 (95 weapon/shield) gets 158 str from gear in full fending. Monk in striking gets 224, about 141% what the pally gets.

Paladin at i130 (135 weapon/shield) gets 272 str from gear in full fending. Monk in striking gets 388, about 142% what the pally gets.

That's a very small relative increase, and I stress RELATIVE increase, because the absolute values don't mean anything. Every attack in this game is a function of potency - there are no attacks that deal, say, 50 damage plus a scaling value, which is where tanks run into trouble in other mmos, because the flat value tends to be very large, and their scaling is poor.. Your potency per second doesn't change much with gear - it goes up very slowly with skill/spell speed, with an occasional jump if you hit a breakpoint, but gains in strength don't affect it at all. Str is, essentially, just a multiplier on your attack damage, and if you held hate with 70% of the multiplier the dps got back in coil one, you can hold hate with 70% of the multiplier the dps get now.

[SwordCoheir]

I don't really understand why getting less str is a problem.

Ummm, what? STR has significant value to damage which in turn increases the base value which the enmity potency modifiers will multiply. My own damage goes up 200-300 damage average in full STR gear, which is why I can pull hate off equally geared fending, Shield Oath/Defiance tanks, good lord if I go Shield Oath nobody is gonna hold hate off me.

Anyways, by your own math the DPS went from +66 STR over tanks too +116 over tanks that's pretty significant in the long run, and that's +116 STR now, what's gonna happen when the next gear patch hits +176 over tanks? That's kind of pushing it.

[Menae]

Ummm, what? STR has significant value to damage which in turn increases the base value which the enmity potency modifiers will multiply. My own damage goes up 200-300 damage average in full STR gear, which is why I can pull hate off equally geared fending, Shield Oath/Defiance tanks, good lord if I go Shield Oath nobody is gonna hold hate off me.

Anyways, by your own math the DPS went from +66 STR over tanks too +116 over tanks that's pretty significant in the long run, and that's +116 STR now, what's gonna happen when the next gear patch hits +176 over tanks? That's kind of pushing it.

Of course it does. My point is this: assume an optimal paladin rotation does x enmity per STR, and an optimal dps rotation does y enmity per STR (or INT/DEX/MND, whatever), including all multipliers for shield oath, sword oath, etc. If tanks are consistently getting the same ratio of STR to dps (current ratio is about .7 for tanks), then as long as .7x > y, how much actual strength you have is irrelevant. You could have 7,000 STR to a monk's 10,000 STR, and as long as .7x>y, you'll still hold hate.

[TouchandFeel]

Paladin changes are something that I have been thinking a lot about lately and here are some of the changes that I thought would really make PLD better/more enjoyable to play.

1) Better dps when solo or main tanking. WAR has a huge advantage here and something should be done to help bring them closer together. One idea I had was to make Spirits Within ignore the damage reduction from Shield Oath similar to how some WAR abilities ignore the penalty from Defiance. That is all I've come up with so far, so if anyone is so inclined please post ideas. It should only increase dps when in shield oath and not sword oath as OT warrior and PLD damage are not too far apart. Also, I'm cool with WAR having a little better dps than PLD, just not to the level of disparity that exists now.

2) The Oaths should be taken off GCD. I have been experimenting with oath/stance dancing in order to make playing PLD more dynamic and interesting, for example popping a defensive CD and swapping to sword oath for the duration of the CD to squeeze out a bit more dps and then switching back to shield when the CD is done. However, with the oaths on gcd I find myself often not able to make the quick oath swaps that I want because the gcd has locked me out. So let's say I'm OTing in SwO and adds spawn that I need to pick up, its approx. 2.5 sec until I can swap to shield oath and then another 2.5 until I can properly engage the target. 5 seconds is a long time to have to wait and a lot can happen during that time. Taking the oaths off gcd would allow for quick on-the-fly swaps which would make strategic stance dancing to maximize dps more viable.

3) I am combining two into one for this suggestion. First is the most asked for suggestion for PLD, a second 3 part combo from riot blade. Second is a "takes more damage from x" debuff like WAR's slashing damage debuff. What I was thinking was to add this debuff to the 3rd attack in the combo and having it something that makes sense with riot like "reduces targets magic resistance by 10%".

4) Cover needs to be improved. First, it needs to not only redirect physical damage but any type of damage. It is already incredibly situational as it is, it doesn't need anything else to narrow its potential usefulness. Also it needs its range increased, sometimes my cover target just being on the other side of a larger mob places them too far away from me to use cover on them and since as a tank you are usually on one side of such a mob and facing it away from everyone else, that situation happens more often than it should.

5) Awareness, its a bit of a waste of an ability AND a trait. Just remove it as an ability and add its effect as a trait advancement to another ability like Bulwark. This would then open up an available ability slot for the new combo attack that I brought up in #3.

3+5 Alternative) A potential alternative to suggestions 3 and 5. Instead of removing Awareness as an ability, keep it as an ability and have the duration granted by the trait just built in. Then by freeing up that trait slot have it used for "Enhanced Riot Blade", which would allow you to combo another Riot Blade off of a comboed Riot Blade and then apply the debuff brought up in #3, essentially giving you a 3 part combo (Fast Blade>Riot Blade>Riot Blade) that applies the damage resistance debuff without exactly creating a new ability. However this "enhanced riot" blade may need a different animation than the regular riot blade as doing two back to back could look weird. While I list this as an alternative, just doing suggestions 3 and 5 would probably be better.

[Blueskyy]

Although PLD have lower dmg while tanking, their dps is sightly higher compared to warrior while offtanking considering PLD are more defensive tanks while warriors are more aggressive and high dmg tanks. It's obvious to know why they have lower damage.
Warriors need to do quite a few things to get more mitigation. Keeping Storm path up, timing IB for big attacks. While PLD mitigations are just a button away, their 90sec def cd rampart with compared to warriors foresight is just clear which is better.
Also even tho the self heal from warriors are low in high lvl raids it does help as they need the self heal to compare with the increasing block rates and strengths of PLD shield. If PLD gets a dmg buff then warriors need a mitigation buff or self healing buff

[LalaRu]

I'd just be happy with Shield Bash taken off the GCD.
It is the only PLD stun and have it on GCD makes it almost useless, because PLD have always GCD in action and stuns are tactical skill to be used at exact timing. And you cannot ask a PLD to stand still in the event a mob may use the skill to stun.

And I do not care it interrupts my awesome rotation, Stun some skill casting is part of mechanics and have priority. Sastasha hard, first boss, a clear example of that.

[SpookyGhost]

I'd just be happy with Shield Bash taken off the GCD.

PLD stun is on the GCD because WAR's is off it. PLD's advantage is that it sits on a 2.5s (skillspeed dependent) recast timer - this is especially useful in fights like T5 and Leviathan. WAR also has to deal with animation delay on their stun, which isn't much fun.

[SwordCoheir]

PLD stun is on the GCD because WAR's is off it. PLD's advantage is that it sits on a 2.5s (skillspeed dependent) recast timer - this is especially useful in fights like T5 and Leviathan. WAR also has to deal with animation delay on their stun, which isn't much fun.

Fact PLD's the only job that can consistently and consecutively stun on a whim is a tactical advantage other jobs don't have, and as much as people harp on it being on the GCD it's proven to be more useful in the long run in endgame instances (at least for the time that content is relevant).

[Raffounz]

Come on I have no problem taking adds in T10 or swapping with War or Tanking as MT the T11 boss in pair with war. Full vit. Please try to master you job (I'm not so experienced on War and so I have aggro problem with it so YES, experience and masterness of the job is a Key value).