Possible Paladin Rework...

[LalaRu]

I'd just be happy with Shield Bash taken off the GCD.
It is the only PLD stun and have it on GCD makes it almost useless, because PLD have always GCD in action and stuns are tactical skill to be used at exact timing. And you cannot ask a PLD to stand still in the event a mob may use the skill to stun.

And I do not care it interrupts my awesome rotation, Stun some skill casting is part of mechanics and have priority. Sastasha hard, first boss, a clear example of that.

[Raffounz]

Come on I have no problem taking adds in T10 or swapping with War or Tanking as MT the T11 boss in pair with war. Full vit. Please try to master you job (I'm not so experienced on War and so I have aggro problem with it so YES, experience and masterness of the job is a Key value).

[TouchandFeel]

PLD are more defensive tanks while warriors are more aggressive and high dmg tanks. It's obvious to know why they have lower damage... If PLD gets a dmg buff then warriors need a mitigation buff or self healing buff

I would just like to point out that PLD is not better overall at mitigation than a WAR and that in a lot of instances, such as boss fights, a WAR can have better mitigation.

This is because of a few things.

First off the eHP provided by the two tank stances is the same.

Rampart and Inner Beast. While IB has a shorter uptime, it can be used more frequently as long as you are doing your rotations which results in approximately the same overall uptime for the two. The differences: IB does damage and has a self heal, but the big one is that they actually don't mitigate the same % amount because of ShO being a base % damage reduction which means Rampart actually ends up being a 16% damage reduction while IB is still 20%. When coupled with the tank stance buffs, their defensive gain is the same. Also, as far as the difficulty of timing IB to big attacks, Infuriate + IB is available more often than Rampart so while you have to push one more button you can time it to more potential big attacks.

Sentinel and Vengeance. Sentinel with the trait says it does 40% damage reduction which actually results in a 32% damage reduction and lasts for 10 seconds and is on a CD timer of 180s. Vengeance does 30% damage reduction, does damage on being hit by physical attacks, lasts for 15s and has a 120s CD timer. When coupled with the tank stance benefits, they result in approximately the same defensive gains. Sentinel will provide a bit more mitigation per hit over a shorter period of time, while Vengeance lasts longer but has less mitigation per hit. However there still is the discrepancy of the cooldown times between the two (180s vs. 120s) and that Vengeance also does damage.

Bulwark and Foresight. This one is a bit harder to measure because of block. Bulwark can give greater burst damage reduction, but it has a shorter duration and longer cool down. Foresight may do less reduction but it lasts longer and can be used more often. The difficult to compare elements are that block could potentially block a really nasty attack or hit, but then again it probably won't. The chance of that happening is quite low so you should never plan around it.

Holmgang and Hallowed Ground. HG is better IMO and Holmgang could use some rework/a buff.

Thrill of Battle and Stoneskin. They function pretty much the same, the main differences being SS has a cast time but no cooldown and ToB does not have a cast time but has a cool down, ToB can stack with a SS cast by a healer. Also, with the trait ToB does 20% instead of 10%.

Convalescence. Same ability for both, but the PLD version is better due to trait.

Bloodbath. Same ability for both, but WAR version is slightly better due to trait.

Awareness. Pretty meh for either class.

Rage of Halone debuff and Storm's Path debuff. SP's damage reduced debuff is better than RoH's strength debuff since it affects all damage.

Block and Self-heals. Different flavor elements for both classes. While people like to say that the shield is a huge deal, it only works on physical attacks so is mainly effective for negating an auto attack here and there unless you use Bulwark but that ability should be looked at separately. So in most instances, they result in approximately the same amount of mitigation.

While it may seem like I am showing that WAR mitigation is better, it really depends on the situation. In boss fights and magic heavy fights, WAR can have better mitigation. In large trash pulls or physical damage heavy fights, PLD may have better mitigation.

Point being this whole PLD is defensive and WAR is offensive so should do much higher damage is only true conceptually and not functionally, so justifying the much greater amount of damage that a WAR can do solo or MTing is moot since their mitigation does not have this sort of discrepancy.

Also as I was suggesting, any buffs to PLD damage would be limited to only while using shield oath since that is where the big damage difference is, when both tanks are in their tank stance.

[Shurrikhan]

> Shield Moves on Separate GCD. Shield Oath shares a GCD with sword moves and Sword Oath with shield moves (it takes longer to swap to Sword Oath and stun and longer to swap to Shield Oath and dps).
Activation time will be limited only by animation locks. (RoH can still be a stun-killer, but a little less so than before). Shield Swipe can be a larger source of MT dps, as, assuming constant blocks, you'd have a roughly 50% increased rate of fire (the total animation time of most melee moves + Shield Swipe would probably bring you to just short of or a bit more than (RoH) half way through the next GCD.

- Bulwark will now provide a guaranteed block against cleaves around you, though a percentage of your bonus block rating will be consumed in proportion to how low your health drops from these cleaves and the amount of bonus block percentage had to be granted to guarantee the block. This mitigation is applied to the cleaves directly, and will effectively mitigate for all allies cleaved with it. Still applies only to physical attacks. (Effect is similar to Holy Passive, the Shield Oath alteration of Shield Bash, below, except that Holy Passive affects all damage types.)

>>> Oaths Revamped.

>> Both Oaths will generate stacks, to a maximum of 10. These stacks become harder to generate and have greater effect with each stack. There is only one type of stacks, shared by both oaths. Effects and generation method vary with oath. Both provide slight passive bonuses and can be consumed for burst effect.
- Shield Oath generates stacks through stunning, pacifying, and especially blocking (both from the block itself and the amount of damage blocked).
- Sword Oath generates stacks through dealing damage.

>> Each Oath will alter certain abilities.

> While in Shield Oath, pressing Shield Oath again grant additional effects to your next shield ability. You may channel additional stacks to be consumed either while holding down Shield Oath or by holding after using either shield move. The max channeling time is 3 seconds, stack-consuming/loading speed increased by the Skill/Spell Speed stat.
Stacks to be consumed that are channeled before using the abilities will add block chance, block strength, and flat damage reduction (the last in proportion to your attack power) immediately, lasting up to 3 seconds from the time the channel stops and doubled (quadrupled for Shield Bash) from when the skill animation begins to 1 second after it ends. In this form it is essentially an active mitigation tool that takes a while to regenerate but is not quite a CD.
- If the channel is instead done during the animation of the shield abilities:
-- Shield Bash will create a Holy Passive on the ground, protecting a conal area behind it, which will absorb damage that passes through its zone. Health is dependent on the number of stacks given to it, your health, defense, and attack power. Max of 8 stacks consumed over up to 1 GCD.
-- Shield Swipe will have a knock-back effect and will provide the Chastise effect on the enemy, which will slow and heavy the enemy while dealing holy damage for the duration of the channel. Max of 6 stacks consumed over up to 2 GCDs. The slow and heavy durations, though channeled, will not be reduced by speed.

> Sword Oath alters the effects of Spirits Within, Riot Blade, and Circle of Scorn.
> Simply Channeling Sword Oath allows you to consume mana in order to increase your Strength for a short duration, and adds half of the combo bonus of each ability done in combo since starting this buff as magic damage. Every odd stack channeled will generate 5/6/7/8/9% strength [max: 35%], effect increasing per stack. Every even stack will increase the duration of the effect by 1/1/1.33/1.66/2 GCDs [7 total]. Each stack consumed will spend 7% of base mana. Channeling is broken by and begins its duration when using another ability.

[Usage note: Going for larger consumptions tends to allow you to use the Strength to benefit a block if you were to swap Oaths, or it can allow for a full combo, where a Rage of Halone can potentially hit for as much as a Maim-Berserk Butcher's Block when including both the strength buff and the added combo bonus damage (as magic damage). Keep in mind that only half of the bonus effects here will affect oGCD moves, and that a RoH and Fast Blade on their own will not benefit from the combo bonus either. {RoH, FB, SB, RoH, FB, SB, RoH} is probably your best bet for using all 7 GCDs; {FB, RB, FB RB} or {RoH, FB, SB, RoH} after that, etc.. There is enough mana to swap Oaths after a 10-stack consume if you are at nearly full mana beforehand.]

- Circle of Scorn: Consuming stacks in combination in channel during/following Circle of Scorn will deal a second set of damage in small AoEs around you (each a separate, larger sword) from 10 o'clock, clockwise around you, firing 1 each third of a second at 2 stacks per second each to a max of 8 stacks. Each deals 10 potency and applies a DoT lasting 9 seconds, dealing 40 potency per tick. You can attack while the effect is still going, and simply click off the channel whenever, or continue holding it. (Yes you can cause enemies to be re-hit to get a little more duration out of this, or ensure that they all fall on the same enemy...)

- Spirits Within... [haven't thought this up yet. meh]


...I should really get back to work. Will finish this later if this isn't already a complete bust. I plan to work in an immense damage bonus or damage reflect to the shield stuff as well, since MT dps is where PLD is really lacking.

[SpookyGhost]

I'd just be happy with Shield Bash taken off the GCD.

PLD stun is on the GCD because WAR's is off it. PLD's advantage is that it sits on a 2.5s (skillspeed dependent) recast timer - this is especially useful in fights like T5 and Leviathan. WAR also has to deal with animation delay on their stun, which isn't much fun.

[SwordCoheir]

PLD stun is on the GCD because WAR's is off it. PLD's advantage is that it sits on a 2.5s (skillspeed dependent) recast timer - this is especially useful in fights like T5 and Leviathan. WAR also has to deal with animation delay on their stun, which isn't much fun.

Fact PLD's the only job that can consistently and consecutively stun on a whim is a tactical advantage other jobs don't have, and as much as people harp on it being on the GCD it's proven to be more useful in the long run in endgame instances (at least for the time that content is relevant).

[TouchandFeel]

@ SpookyGhost and SwordCoheir

Exactly what you two have said, taking the PLD stun off GCD would make it way too good compared to the WAR stun. If anything the WAR stun needs fixing by having its animation windup time reduced.

[SwordCoheir]

@ SpookyGhost and SwordCoheir

Exactly what you two have said, taking the PLD stun off GCD would make it way too good compared to the WAR stun. If anything the WAR stun needs fixing by having its animation windup time reduced.

Not exactly, it's just every other job that has Stun's are all on a 20-30 second or so cooldown or there has to be some requirement to it (Shoulder Tackle's distance requirement, MNK/NIN forms). If you don't have a PLD and require stunlocks you have to co-ordinate your parties CD moves and that often hurts the parties DPS. Basically put, Shield Bash's strength is the fact it IS on the GCD, taking it off would hurt more than help in the long run because of it's spamability advantage.

[ZerogaKamico]

How about Square Enix adding a skill that is able to make use of a Paladin`s enormous damage income?
Something that would be very usefull in a pinch and that could help the entire party?

For example:
A skill with a 15sec duration, and that would take 10% of the total damage taken by the Paladin and equally distribute it as HP to the other party members.
Putting a long recast (3 minutes maybe?) would be enough to prevent over-usage.

It is a nice idea, no? I think it also fits with the "Paladin" theme, where he would get hurt to protect those around him.
Maybe add this as a Level 50 skill, with the need to complete a certain quest to get it would be interesting, no?

[TouchandFeel]

@SwordCoheir

Being on GCD just means that an ability is tied to a cooldown timer shared across a number of abilities, activating and having to wait for it. This game just happens to lump most abilities into three categories: those on gcd with no additional cooldown, those off gcd with their own specific cooldowns, and those with specific requirements such as procs in order to activate.

It is entirely possible for an ability to be coupled to the gcd and then have its own longer cool down, it is just not very common.

So when I see someone say to take an ability off gcd and they provide no explicit cooldown time for it, I interpret that as having a 2.5 second cooldown (baseline gcd time in this game) or no cooldown and it being unhooked from the gcd, neither activating it nor having to wait for it.

That is why I said it would be quite OP.