Holding Hate after 1.18

**Renegade** · 07-23-2011 11:51 PM

Just curious but seems tanking is a bit different now. Many say its alot more like tanking in FFXI but I only played that a short time. Anyways anyone got anytips or strats for holding hate better with the new changes? Personally I've noticed healing myself pulls aggro alot better than my taunt lol

**Dacen** · 07-24-2011 08:20 AM

Hi there Renegade,

I found the following on the patch notes:

[dev1023] The enmity algorithm has been adjusted.

Enmity is now a culmination of all actions taken in battle with one point of damage equalling one point of enmity.

Actions that contribute to enmity can be divided into two distinct groups:
1. damage and enfeeblement inflicted on the target
2. enhancement and healing granted to party members

Not only does the amount enmity garnered differ between the two aforementioned groups, but varies based on the amount of damage dealt/HP restored. Enmity is reset when a player cannot participate in battle for an extended period of time (is KO'd, etc).

So basically, what I gather from this is, you do 170 points of damage to a mob, and I heal someone from 168 HP, you are still holding hate.

That's the simple part of it, how the enfeebles and other actions stack up, is a whole different story. But from what I've tested so far, any enhancements (such as Rampart, Defender etc.) that I put on myself seem to generate enmity as well. Perhaps enfeebles/enhancements all have set enmity generating values (i.e - A rampart is equivelant to 100 points of damage/heals) but I'm sure it's more complicated than that.

I see you are more seasoned than I at this game, so I am not insulting your intelligence or anything, but as I did in FFXI too, you gain that "tanking sense", and just sort of know with time if you are going to do enough to grab enough hate or not. I guess just keep doing trial and error and SP parties etc. and you'll grasp it for this game too =)

Eventually, try to benchmark enmity with different skills, so know how much a certain enfeeble/enhancement generates for enmity with that same "tanking sense".

However, at this point in time, I believe enmity algorithms still need tweaking though. So just do your best

GL!

**Falcus** · 07-24-2011 09:51 AM

yeah I'd like to know this as well, though tbh I'm going to need a long "grind" party to get used to it again.
but my old strategies for keeping hate do not work at all now, basically before the patch, the best way to keep hate was by continuously buffing (Raging Strike and Ferocity were great choices due to the fact that they required zero stamina) but now most of that generates minimal enmity, which for the most part just does not suffice.

I'm going to keep working on it, but so far the best I've done is by healing.

**jwang** · 07-24-2011 12:19 PM

From what I can tell, Phalanx and Onion Cut are your two best friends, and Spinstroke when the mob runs away. Rage of Halone just doesn't do enough for its action point costs and cast time, even if I'm being pummeled by TP moves and adds on the diremite boss in Totorak. Make judicious use of your defensive abilities, the only one you should really be keeping in reserve in my opinion is Rampart. Add Taunt (PUG) to your action bar as well, it works like the old Provoke still and can be used in a pinch. I might be wrong on Onion Cut, but I usually hold hate very well using this method unless some ARC decides to go nuts and pop off all his cooldowns.

Almost forgot: have your heavy slash and heavy stab on the bar as well, if the mob is red or yellow, one heavy stab or slash should get them back onto you if they land. Disorient is a nice additional cooldown to add to your enmity cycles as well, though it doesn't seem to perform better than Provoke.

**Renegade** · 07-24-2011 07:29 PM

Thanks for the tips, ya my old style isnt cutting it but I wanna get better

**wind** · 07-25-2011 01:51 AM

Stuff I found in terms of hate values for abilities.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...e=212910&ref=2

**Twentytwo** · 07-26-2011 01:25 AM

Happy you did the testing, I was noticing this just from what I saw but did no actual hard testing.

**wind** · 07-26-2011 09:16 AM

Ya kinda a huge change to tanking lol. But in light of the change I really hope come 1.20 or even 1.19 the dev team alter the base mana pool for gladiators to accommodate this.

Kinda sucks having to go all the way to 100mnd just to be able to do 12 C1s or 6-7 C2s and even less C3s specially if fights last a long time. Towards the end we'll be dry and in need of a sudden hate build up we'll be just stuck there with nothing.

**zaviermhigo** · 07-26-2011 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Renegade

Just curious but seems tanking is a bit different now. Many say its alot more like tanking in FFXI but I only played that a short time. Anyways anyone got anytips or strats for holding hate better with the new changes? Personally I've noticed healing myself pulls aggro alot better than my taunt lol

Sounds sorta like xi, the curing yourself for enmity, many a pld would cure themselves when i was a nub and i'd be like "i can cure you i was just about to sorry ^^" and they'd be like "oh its for enimity no prob just lemme do it"

It may seem like a dick to talk about "tanking sense" when people need legit answers, but he's kinda right. Tanking/healing are two jobs that it just feels right when you're doing well. And i think for both tanks and healers it will take maybe a month or two of adjustment and playing around before we're like "okay we got this', imo there's no set way to tank or heal, unless the mob is doing preset abilities in the same order every time. We just gotta think on our feet.

**Rentahamster** · 07-26-2011 10:49 AM

Yeah, it takes a lot more effort now.

Accomplice is your friend.

Thread: Holding Hate after 1.18

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