1% drop rates... a thought expriment.

[Welsper59]

RNG is a terrible way to do things, because there's no rhyme or reason to who gets it. With a low % drop item, especially one you then have to lot for, you may never get that item before the next batch of content comes out and it becomes obsolete just because RNG hates you. That's not good design.

RNG for a vanity item like the mounts isn't *that* big a deal because it's not a functional item. The mirrors are functional items, so it's not cool to subject your players to the whims of the RNG like that.

You could say "just not do that", but there are only two alternatives. Animus, which is also subject to heavy RNG, and weathered which is not content everyone wants to do. Coil or RNG does not make for good options.

The Novus section of the Relic quest is handled better than atmas or mirrors. While it may be a little longer than I'd like, they allow for three separate paths to progress. A daily quest that is pretty quick to do, but will take a long time if you only do that. Myth grinding is there for the hardcore grinders that want it right now. And there's an RNG/Fate option for those that are happy with that.

Heavy RNG is ok, only if there are good alternatives to it for those who don't want to put up with that.

Wait so... you don't think that the Zenith/Atma/Animus/Novus relics (which is accessible by ANYONE if they put in the time) and base Levi Ex weapons (which is very easy to farm for) is good enough of an alternative to getting things done? What exactly are you going to be doing outside of Coil that requires such an upgrade like the mirror/atma/novus/etc weapons that deems it mandatory to acquire quickly? Serious questions.

If it's purely for the sake of having them... you're not exactly providing a strong argument to justify screwing with the progression process the devs want the game to currently provide.

[Giantbane]

Wait so... you don't think that the Zenith/Atma/Animus/Novus relics (which is accessible by ANYONE if they put in the time) and base Levi Ex weapons (which is very easy to farm for) is good enough of an alternative to getting things done? What exactly are you going to be doing outside of Coil that requires such an upgrade like the mirror/atma/novus/etc weapons that deems it mandatory to acquire quickly? Serious questions.

If it's purely for the sake of having them... you're not exactly providing a strong argument to justify screwing with the progression process the devs want the game to currently provide.

Atma drop rates are also in the 1% drop range. So abysmal RNG for mirror or abysmal RNG for Atma. Or coil.

Too much super low RNG.

[Welsper59]

Atma drop rates are also in the 1% drop range. So abysmal RNG for mirror or abysmal RNG for Atma. Or coil.

Too much super low RNG.

Still haven't exactly provided an answer to my questions though. I am genuinely interested in knowing what you plan on doing with the weapons that's why, given that their purpose is to help push you further into Coil. And again, if it's purely for the sake of having them, you're not providing a decent argument as to why it should be a fast process when it would screw with progression steps for people that do use said weapons for their intended raid benefits.

[Giantbane]

Still haven't exactly provided an answer to my questions though. I am genuinely interested in knowing what you plan on doing with the weapons that's why, given that their purpose is to help push you further into Coil. And again, if it's purely for the sake of having them, you're not providing a decent argument as to why it should be a fast process when it would screw with progression steps for people that do use said weapons for their intended raid benefits.

Their purpose is to help you kill stuff. Anything. Isn't limited to coil (although it does help in coil). Faster daily runs. Easier to help others with trials or EX primals. Will help in CT. Will help for coil pickup groups. Anything. This is a progression MMO. If it makes you stronger, it's part of the core gameplay.

Besides, I didn't say anything about it being a fast process. I said that it should be a more consistent process. Those are two different things.

[Welsper59]

Their purpose is to help you kill stuff. Anything. Isn't limited to coil (although it does help in coil). Faster daily runs. Easier to help others with trials or EX primals. Will help in CT. Will help for coil pickup groups. Anything. This is a progression MMO. If it makes you stronger, it's part of the core gameplay.

Besides, I didn't say anything about it being a fast process. I said that it should be a more consistent process. Those are two different things.

So why aren't things like the i90 Zenith relic, which is very easy to get, as well as the i95 Levi Ex weapons, which are also very easy to get, good enough to kill stuff with? Heck, the i95 Wave weapons are intended to get you through t7 to get the i100 weathered weapons. Meaning, anything outside of Coil is absolutely dominated by the Wave weapon.

When the intent of an item is merely meant to be a side option, and one that is ON LEVEL with endgame raid upgrades, having it be consistent (possible to be planned for) makes it mandatory to the player base. While you might think that's fine, it's ridiculous from a design stance. Why would you make an equal alternative to something that is very difficult to obtain from the main endgame source, obtainable consistently from something you could do without end? Mind you, this is only referring to the content when it's new (as when CT2 is released, we'll have a chance for the UAT to drop there).

One popular solution people tend to think would work is raising the ilvl of the Coil weapon in response to that. To that, I'd say they shouldn't do that due to stat inflation. We're raising in ilvl very quick as is. The point though is that things have a reason to be. The mirror upgrade is basically like saying you just won a T7 weapon from doing Levi Ex. Currently, it really doesn't make sense to streamline the process into a predictable outcome.

[Giantbane]

So why aren't things like the i90 Zenith relic, which is very easy to get, as well as the i95 Levi Ex weapons, which are also very easy to get, good enough to kill stuff with? Heck, the i95 Wave weapons are intended to get you through t7 to get the i100 weathered weapons. Meaning, anything outside of Coil is absolutely dominated by the Wave weapon.

When the intent of an item is merely meant to be a side option, and one that is ON LEVEL with endgame raid upgrades, having it be consistent (possible to be planned for) makes it mandatory to the player base. While you might think that's fine, it's ridiculous from a design stance. Why would you make an equal alternative to something that is very difficult to obtain from the main endgame source, obtainable consistently from something you could do without end? Mind you, this is only referring to the content when it's new (as when CT2 is released, we'll have a chance for the UAT to drop there).

One popular solution people tend to think would work is raising the ilvl of the Coil weapon in response to that. To that, I'd say they shouldn't do that due to stat inflation. We're raising in ilvl very quick as is. The point though is that things have a reason to be. The mirror upgrade is basically like saying you just won a T7 weapon from doing Levi Ex. Currently, it really doesn't make sense to streamline the process into a predictable outcome.

UAT is better because you can upgrade it to i110. You could hand out tidal wave weapons for zoning into the Levi X fight and that wouldn't change it.

Acquiring gear is a strong part of the game. When you start to tell too many people that they can't have gear "just because" (RNG), they're going to get tired of it eventually. That's not good for the game, and it's really lazy design.

[Welsper59]

UAT is better because you can upgrade it to i110. You could hand out tidal wave weapons for zoning into the Levi X fight and that wouldn't change it.

Acquiring gear is a strong part of the game. When you start to tell too many people that they can't have gear "just because" (RNG), they're going to get tired of it eventually. That's not good for the game, and it's really lazy design.

The weathered weapon is intended to be used though... it's not a side upgrade or anything. It changes it A LOT because it no longer becomes worth acquiring besides something to use up an inventory space until you upgrade it. They might as well just get rid of the Weathered weapon entirely and only have the upgraded i110 weapon for the t8/9 reward. Why bother with the Weathered coil weapons, which have a lockout to it, when you can just spam the hell out of Levi Ex... This would make the Tidal weapons essentially mandatory to acquire for most endgame FC. How is that not changing anything?

RNG is an RPGs bread and butter when it comes to system. If you don't like the system, or find it detrimental enough to hate the game (especially when it's not even very prevalent in this one), you're not exactly a valid source of criticism when a game dev decides to put it in. You may not like it, but that kinda points out that you're not an intended audience/target for the game (in the long term). Using comments like "lazy design" only points out that you just don't know much about what to expect from the genre. From tradition, it's like going into an FPS game and complaining that you die too quickly to headshots. It's an element that the genre tends to follow. Not understanding design choice also reduces the validity of negative comments. You're more than welcome to share them, but unless you understand things well, you're more than likely in-the-wrong to think the way you do. Of course, you could still be right about things, but unless you provide a solid argument for it, no one has a reason to truly believe it.