1% drop rates... a thought expriment.

[Kuwagami]

snip

you're new to MMOs aren't you ?

most games before were heavily relying on RNG, way more than FFxiv. You could farm for years and never see a drop. (But yeah, you could trade all items so if you had no luck, you could farm gold... not here).


Oh and btw, the mirror isn't supposed to be a functional item. It's "ice on the cake". If you get it, your weapon gets better and shinier. If not, your weapon is on par with T5, and you have upgrades in the coil (T7 requires i95 weapon) or with atmas/books (long grind). If you got the mirror (IF), congratulations !! you are a lucky guy who won't have to upgrade his weapon before either novus, T8 or T9.

Tidal wave weapons were not supposed to be a progression step after T5. Wave weapons are an upgrade of previous primals weapon, which were i90. that's all there is to know

[Giantbane]

you're new to MMOs aren't you ?

some modern MMOs whose designers aren't lazy do things like adding tokens you have to collect with a much higher drop rate such that the differences between two players experiences with the drop rate doesn't vary so wildly (although with any random result you can get screwed, but when the chance of success is higher, the likelihood of this happening goes down). 1% drops is very 2004.

Oh and btw, the mirror isn't supposed to be a functional item.

Does it help you kill stuff? It's functional.

It doesn't mean it has to be easy or quick to get. But, again, 1% drop rates is a bad way to handle it. Too likely to have players screwed by RNG.

[Kuwagami]

some modern MMOs whose designers aren't lazy do things like adding tokens you have to collect with a much higher drop rate such that the differences between two players experiences with the drop rate doesn't vary so wildly (although with any random result you can get screwed, but when the chance of success is higher, the likelihood of this happening goes down). 1% drops is very 2004.

Nice way to prove my point
and tokens for what ? a single mirror ? if it's for alts classes you don't *need* the mirror. If it's for your main class, you have faster ways to improve your dps than a glow on a secondary weapon.
Also, yoshida already stated that the players were underestimating the real drop rates. Drama everyday.

Does it help you kill stuff? It's functional.

It doesn't mean it has to be easy or quick to get. But, again, 1% drop rates is a bad way to handle it. Too likely to have players screwed by RNG.

... once again it's all but needed. It's a sub-par weapon in 2.2 patch to begin with. There is no need to get it. Ramuh weapons will be rare too. Will you complain again about an additional loot (Ramuh's loot being accessories) ? Because you know, mirrors are additional loots. Devs were never obliged to put them in the game

[Giantbane]

Nice way to prove my point

uhh ... what?

and tokens for what ? a single mirror ?

Isn't that obvious? 30% drop rate on tokens and you need 30 of them is a better way to handle this than putting a single item on a 1% drop rate. Or adjust for whatever. Even that's too low for my tastes, but it's a better way of handling things if you really want them to take a while and still have some random factor to it.

Hell, I think the weapon drop rates are too random. I'd much prefer if they split it into tank/dps/healer tokens with a 25%/50%/25% drop rate (to reflect group makeup). Especially when they add new jobs. It's going to get worse.

if it's for alts classes you don't *need* the mirror. If it's for your main class, you have faster ways to improve your dps than a glow on a secondary weapon.
Also, yoshida already stated that the players were underestimating the real drop rates. Drama everyday.

... once again it's all but needed. It's a sub-par weapon in 2.2 patch to begin with. There is no need to get it. Ramuh weapons will be rare too. Will you complain again about an additional loot (Ramuh's loot being accessories) ? Because you know, mirrors are additional loots. Devs were never obliged to put them in the game

Yup, all of that is garbage, lazy design that's outdated by 10 years.

[Kuwagami]

uhh ... what?

Nah ignore it, I misread totally

other stuff

should we *once again* fall in the endless "devs are lazy they put RNG" vs "players want shinies that are meant to be rare" ?

Ok, I'll listen to your suggestion to make something rare (I mean, really rare, something you're happy to get or become insane if you try to farm for it) while not relying on RNG. My bet is you can't.


or maybe you thought that the mirrors were an upgrade for the wave weapons that everyone was supposed to get at some point. If that's the case you were wrong. They're meant as a bonus

[Giantbane]

Nah ignore it, I misread totally



should we *once again* fall in the endless "devs are lazy they put RNG" vs "players want shinies that are meant to be rare" ?

Ok, I'll listen to your suggestion to make something rare (I mean, really rare, something you're happy to get or become insane if you try to farm for it) while not relying on RNG. My bet is you can't.

Why would you want to make something particularly desirable that rare? Very few of your paying customers get to enjoy it. You'll probably end up annoying more players that can't have it than you'll please by having it be a rare item. Sound like a high risk, low reward design.

Besides, there's nothing particularly special about the tidal weapons. Either the stats or the looks. So it makes very little sense for anyone to try to make it "rare". It's an inferior alternative to animus or weathered because it can't be upgraded further.

I don't believe they're using mirrors to make tidal weapons rare, anyway. It's a carrot on a stick for those who choose to chase it. Keep Levi EX as relevant content for longer. Get people to keep running it after they've gotten their weapon to give others an opportunity to get a weapon too. But I believe it's a bad way to set up the carrot and stick because the results can vary so wildly. You could be done after 1 run, or not finish it in 1000 runs. If they don't get their carrot, they're going to get tired of chasing things eventually.

[Kuwagami]

Why would you want to make something particularly desirable that rare?

I should let you answer yourself, but here is why : it's desirable. Thus people will do it regardless of the odds. Thus the content gets longevity. Because now people can't do stuff for fun and desperately need that carrot.

Very few of your paying customers get to enjoy it. You'll probably end up annoying more players that can't have it than you'll please by having it be a rare item.

1) that's the point. Few people getting it and having shinies. Been like that for ages.
2) if people get upset when they can't get a rare item, honestly, the MMORPG genre isn't for them at all. Rare items are supposed to give rewards for particularly skilled players, dedicated enough players or lucky players. It is supposed to create the will to do better or to try a bit more.

Besides, there's nothing particularly special about the tidal weapons. Either the stats or the looks. So it makes very little sense for anyone to try to make it "rare". It's an inferior alternative to animus or weathered because it can't be upgraded further.

if it's sub-par to anything else, why do you want it in the first place ? Because it's here ? You're not entitled to get everything that exists in the game. (Having access to it at some point, yes, but that's already achieved. You *have* access to the mirror.)

I don't believe they're using mirrors to make tidal weapons rare, anyway. It's a carrot on a stick for those who choose to chase it. Keep Levi EX as relevant content for longer. Get people to keep running it after they've gotten their weapon to give others an opportunity to get a weapon too. But I believe it's a bad way to set up the carrot and stick because the results can vary so wildly. You could be done after 1 run, or not finish it in 1000 runs. If they don't get their carrot, they're going to get tired of chasing things eventually.

if it wasn't to make tidal weapons rare, it wouldn't be here at all. All the weapons would directly be i95 or i100.

and grats at discovering how RNG works in MMOs for rare items. But people won't get tired. They'll switch to the next carrot and continue forth. And eventually they'll realize that the carrot isn't here because they are ought to get it one day. They'll know that it's here because one day they could get it.



side note : an "easy to get" carrot on an easy content such as Leviathan would be an horrible idea. Everyone would get their tidal weap in a month, and the content would become useless for 2 month.