1% drop rates... a thought expriment.

[Welsper59]

Another hardcore who believes anything outside of the hardest end game content is irrelevant, wasn't surprised in the slightest to see you've got a T9 weapon. Yes, we don't have to have these vanity items, in the exact same way we don't have to have the glamour system, but despite what you may think, some people actually like that kind of stuff. If I got a choice between a Mirror and one of the special mounts, I'd take the mount every time. Just because you think about nothing but progression it doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way, and it's pretty ignorant of you to think that.

What are you talking about? There's quite a lot of assumptions in your post. Something being extremely rare adds value to the item. Just because it's something that you want that is rather uncommon to see/get, doesn't mean they have to just give it to you. If they want something to be rare, yet at least accessible to most people to try to get, low RNG is the best way to do it. How special do you consider the guaranteed accessible mounts like the Behemoth, Ahriman, Fat Chocobo, etc? They're awesome mounts, but would you consider them the same value/worth as say... the Legacy Chocobo or even the mounts in question (Primal ones)? Design intent is a huge reason why you can't always get what you want.

[Giantbane]

If they want something to be rare, yet at least accessible to most people to try to get, low RNG is the best way to do it.

Super low RNG is a terrible way to do things, because there's no rhyme or reason to who gets it. With a low % drop item, especially one you then have to lot for, you may never get that item before the next batch of content comes out and it becomes obsolete just because RNG hates you. That's not good design.

RNG for a vanity item like the mounts isn't *that* big a deal because it's not a functional item. The mirrors are functional items, so it's not cool to subject your players to the whims of the RNG like that.

You could say "just not do that", but there are only two alternatives. Animus, which is also subject to heavy RNG, and weathered which is not content everyone wants to do. Coil or RNG does not make for good options.

The Novus section of the Relic quest is handled better than atmas or mirrors. While it may be a little longer than I'd like, they allow for three separate paths to progress. A daily quest that is pretty quick to do, but will take a long time if you only do that. Myth grinding is there for the hardcore grinders that want it right now. And there's an RNG/Fate option for those that are happy with that.

Heavy RNG is ok, only if there are good alternatives to it for those who don't want to put up with that.

[Kuwagami]

snip

you're new to MMOs aren't you ?

most games before were heavily relying on RNG, way more than FFxiv. You could farm for years and never see a drop. (But yeah, you could trade all items so if you had no luck, you could farm gold... not here).


Oh and btw, the mirror isn't supposed to be a functional item. It's "ice on the cake". If you get it, your weapon gets better and shinier. If not, your weapon is on par with T5, and you have upgrades in the coil (T7 requires i95 weapon) or with atmas/books (long grind). If you got the mirror (IF), congratulations !! you are a lucky guy who won't have to upgrade his weapon before either novus, T8 or T9.

Tidal wave weapons were not supposed to be a progression step after T5. Wave weapons are an upgrade of previous primals weapon, which were i90. that's all there is to know

[Giantbane]

you're new to MMOs aren't you ?

some modern MMOs whose designers aren't lazy do things like adding tokens you have to collect with a much higher drop rate such that the differences between two players experiences with the drop rate doesn't vary so wildly (although with any random result you can get screwed, but when the chance of success is higher, the likelihood of this happening goes down). 1% drops is very 2004.

Oh and btw, the mirror isn't supposed to be a functional item.

Does it help you kill stuff? It's functional.

It doesn't mean it has to be easy or quick to get. But, again, 1% drop rates is a bad way to handle it. Too likely to have players screwed by RNG.

[Kuwagami]

some modern MMOs whose designers aren't lazy do things like adding tokens you have to collect with a much higher drop rate such that the differences between two players experiences with the drop rate doesn't vary so wildly (although with any random result you can get screwed, but when the chance of success is higher, the likelihood of this happening goes down). 1% drops is very 2004.

Nice way to prove my point
and tokens for what ? a single mirror ? if it's for alts classes you don't *need* the mirror. If it's for your main class, you have faster ways to improve your dps than a glow on a secondary weapon.
Also, yoshida already stated that the players were underestimating the real drop rates. Drama everyday.

Does it help you kill stuff? It's functional.

It doesn't mean it has to be easy or quick to get. But, again, 1% drop rates is a bad way to handle it. Too likely to have players screwed by RNG.

... once again it's all but needed. It's a sub-par weapon in 2.2 patch to begin with. There is no need to get it. Ramuh weapons will be rare too. Will you complain again about an additional loot (Ramuh's loot being accessories) ? Because you know, mirrors are additional loots. Devs were never obliged to put them in the game

[Giantbane]

Nice way to prove my point

uhh ... what?

and tokens for what ? a single mirror ?

Isn't that obvious? 30% drop rate on tokens and you need 30 of them is a better way to handle this than putting a single item on a 1% drop rate. Or adjust for whatever. Even that's too low for my tastes, but it's a better way of handling things if you really want them to take a while and still have some random factor to it.

Hell, I think the weapon drop rates are too random. I'd much prefer if they split it into tank/dps/healer tokens with a 25%/50%/25% drop rate (to reflect group makeup). Especially when they add new jobs. It's going to get worse.

if it's for alts classes you don't *need* the mirror. If it's for your main class, you have faster ways to improve your dps than a glow on a secondary weapon.
Also, yoshida already stated that the players were underestimating the real drop rates. Drama everyday.

... once again it's all but needed. It's a sub-par weapon in 2.2 patch to begin with. There is no need to get it. Ramuh weapons will be rare too. Will you complain again about an additional loot (Ramuh's loot being accessories) ? Because you know, mirrors are additional loots. Devs were never obliged to put them in the game

Yup, all of that is garbage, lazy design that's outdated by 10 years.

[Kuwagami]

uhh ... what?

Nah ignore it, I misread totally

other stuff

should we *once again* fall in the endless "devs are lazy they put RNG" vs "players want shinies that are meant to be rare" ?

Ok, I'll listen to your suggestion to make something rare (I mean, really rare, something you're happy to get or become insane if you try to farm for it) while not relying on RNG. My bet is you can't.


or maybe you thought that the mirrors were an upgrade for the wave weapons that everyone was supposed to get at some point. If that's the case you were wrong. They're meant as a bonus

[Welsper59]

RNG is a terrible way to do things, because there's no rhyme or reason to who gets it. With a low % drop item, especially one you then have to lot for, you may never get that item before the next batch of content comes out and it becomes obsolete just because RNG hates you. That's not good design.

RNG for a vanity item like the mounts isn't *that* big a deal because it's not a functional item. The mirrors are functional items, so it's not cool to subject your players to the whims of the RNG like that.

You could say "just not do that", but there are only two alternatives. Animus, which is also subject to heavy RNG, and weathered which is not content everyone wants to do. Coil or RNG does not make for good options.

The Novus section of the Relic quest is handled better than atmas or mirrors. While it may be a little longer than I'd like, they allow for three separate paths to progress. A daily quest that is pretty quick to do, but will take a long time if you only do that. Myth grinding is there for the hardcore grinders that want it right now. And there's an RNG/Fate option for those that are happy with that.

Heavy RNG is ok, only if there are good alternatives to it for those who don't want to put up with that.

Wait so... you don't think that the Zenith/Atma/Animus/Novus relics (which is accessible by ANYONE if they put in the time) and base Levi Ex weapons (which is very easy to farm for) is good enough of an alternative to getting things done? What exactly are you going to be doing outside of Coil that requires such an upgrade like the mirror/atma/novus/etc weapons that deems it mandatory to acquire quickly? Serious questions.

If it's purely for the sake of having them... you're not exactly providing a strong argument to justify screwing with the progression process the devs want the game to currently provide.

[Giantbane]

Wait so... you don't think that the Zenith/Atma/Animus/Novus relics (which is accessible by ANYONE if they put in the time) and base Levi Ex weapons (which is very easy to farm for) is good enough of an alternative to getting things done? What exactly are you going to be doing outside of Coil that requires such an upgrade like the mirror/atma/novus/etc weapons that deems it mandatory to acquire quickly? Serious questions.

If it's purely for the sake of having them... you're not exactly providing a strong argument to justify screwing with the progression process the devs want the game to currently provide.

Atma drop rates are also in the 1% drop range. So abysmal RNG for mirror or abysmal RNG for Atma. Or coil.

Too much super low RNG.

[Welsper59]

Atma drop rates are also in the 1% drop range. So abysmal RNG for mirror or abysmal RNG for Atma. Or coil.

Too much super low RNG.

Still haven't exactly provided an answer to my questions though. I am genuinely interested in knowing what you plan on doing with the weapons that's why, given that their purpose is to help push you further into Coil. And again, if it's purely for the sake of having them, you're not providing a decent argument as to why it should be a fast process when it would screw with progression steps for people that do use said weapons for their intended raid benefits.