PLD cross class idea

[Souljacker]

Well..
1. I agree.
2. Yes and no. This was added to XI once and it was beneficial for Ninjas. I won't say it was the end-all, be-all skill that defined the class, but it had its uses. With the way that provoke works here and unless "taunt" is made an individual tank, taunt proper skill I can see SE fudging over the way it works by adding a threat shedder to tanks.
3. Maybe. This wouldn't be used by the add tank I imagine. It would have a very specific use.
4. Provoke shouldn't be a cross class skill at all. Every tank should have their own taunt. It's a defining tank ability. I agree his implementation is silly and wouldn't help the root problems with tank design.
5. Agreed. I don't understand why self-healing is so ineffective here. Even in XI as a paladin I could toss off a cure # once in a while without completely losing control of my monster, and it was reasonably effective and useful. It feels like SE really dropped the ball here on paladin design and there are a LOT of missed opportunities. It's almost like with the way that threat is generated, it was intended at some point to have Paladin able to use more conjury healing spells (which would make up the disparity between warrior threat generation and paladin threat generation especially on multiple mobs and at low levels), but then at some point they shifted direction and took the usefulness away and make it just a strict combat class instead of combat-caster. The end result was a much weaker threat generator than warrior.

In all, I'm not sure WHAT they were planning for or intending with this class. It's been disappointing that they STILL have a serious issue with mixing sword and sorcery. I hope paladin does get some buffs though.

[Donjo]

Well..
2. Yes and no. This was added to XI once and it was beneficial for Ninjas. I won't say it was the end-all, be-all skill that defined the class, but it had its uses. With the way that provoke works here and unless "taunt" is made an individual tank, taunt proper skill I can see SE fudging over the way it works by adding a threat shedder to tanks.

Referencing the FFXI Ninja at all in a discussion about tanks is a can of worms. I know I never played the game, but I still know that Ninja was not developed to be a tank and was only given enmity generating abilities once bad design allowed the community to use it as one. The main question here is "was the Ninja hate shedding move meant to help it perform its originally intended DPS role, or was it an ability specifically tailored to help them tank?"

[Souljacker]

Referencing the FFXI Ninja at all in a discussion about tanks is a can of worms. I know I never played the game, but I still know that Ninja was not developed to be a tank and was only given enmity generating abilities once bad design allowed the community to use it as one. The main question here is "was the Ninja hate shedding move meant to help it perform its originally intended DPS role, or was it an ability specifically tailored to help them tank?"

I don't recall it ever actually being given enmity generating abilities. We generated enmity through a combination of provoke from warrior subjob, spinning the elemental wheel and damage (coupled with some SATA,but again I'm going wayyy back before the level caps were raised so maybe there was some enmity updates afterward). You may be thinking of them adding enmity decay to shadows, which wasn't originally there and why at the start the players jumped on it as it was SOOO effective as a tank.

It is completely irrelevant though, because my comment was steered more towards "the idea isn't COMPLETELY terrible and can be situationally used look at how it was here", not that I thought the design of Ninja as a DD turned Tank able to DD again was something to model Paladin after. I would prefer to see paladin modeled after, well, Paladin in XI if anything, with maybe a splattering of ideas from other games. Combat-caster classes can be super fun to play, but right now paladin doesn't "feel" like one.

[Donjo]

I don't recall it ever actually being given enmity generating abilities. We generated enmity through a combination of provoke from warrior subjob, spinning the elemental wheel and damage (coupled with some SATA,but again I'm going wayyy back before the level caps were raised so maybe there was some enmity updates afterward). You may be thinking of them adding enmity decay to shadows, which wasn't originally there and why at the start the players jumped on it as it was SOOO effective as a tank.

I'm personally not positive on the claim. I read it in a wiki, and we all know how accurate those can be. So, it's equally possible that such abilities were never added or they were added after you stopped playing.

... Combat-caster classes can be super fun to play, but right now paladin doesn't "feel" like one.

I think the issue here is lore. We know Paladin from past Final Fantasy games as a holy warrior who can take damage, dish it out, and make some effort to sustain itself too.

The Paladin from Final Fantasy XIV is not a holy warrior. Paladins are the Sultansworn's Elite, bodyguards to Uldah's Royal Family. They're just people who are really good with a sword and shield, wearing heavy armor, and defending others... not warriors notable for their dual grasp on swordsmanship and white magic.

Where Paladins usually have unfettered access to the first two or three "levels" of white magic, albeit with the restriction of less Mind/Spirit, the Job System in XIV simply doesn't allow for that. We were able to get some of the iconic abilities in there, such as Cover, but the system only stretches so far. Paladins here are only Paladins in name, as they're quite different from the quintessential Final Fantasy Paladin.