More Raid content please!

[Archulak]

Why does SE get to define something that has been defined? Would that mean SE can define an alliance as one person if they choose?

The definition of a RAID outside the mmo genre means nothing. This is the only game that considers a raid = full party.

Why does the game that originally designated something called a raid get to have the undisputed definition of it......... see how that works.

[Vahlnir]

-snip-

You just love picking apart everyone's statements and manipulating them, don't ya? The "may" will be removed so there is no confusion. Now, that said: The "may" was meant to convey my statement in a casual manner that it wasn't a fact. As I have said before, numbers will vary. Though I believe it is certainly more than 4 or 5.

[Gamma621]

Why does SE get to define something that has been defined? Would that mean SE can define an alliance as one person if they choose?

The definition of a RAID outside the mmo genre means nothing. This is the only mmo game that considers a raid = full party.

Defined by WHO? Show me ANYTHING to back up your statement. You can't just take a word, change the dictionary meaning, and then mandate that every future game must now use it in this context. How arrogant are you?

I have now decided that MMO actually means first person shooter. Any person who now disagrees is wrong, and is using the term incorrectly.

That sentence makes as much sense as what you are saying.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

SE gets to decide, because it's their game.

It is their game.

Raid is not their word. Binding Coil of Bahamut, that is their word. They have just as much a right to define raid as you or I do, which is to say, none at all. And the words "large scale" in the definition mean that it is too large for a single group, thus multiple groups. It is not twisting a definition to reflect the meaning; it is twisting the definition when you try to make it mean something it never has.

And raid never has meant single-group content. Raid has never meant soloable content. It means multiple groups, initially many groups, but developers have taken to paring the number down. WoW has 2 group raids. What 1 group raids does it have? Even a guy who's never played it knows the answer to that : none, because that is group content, not raid content. EQ had, when it first implemented their raid system, 12 groups. Their instances support up to 9 groups. How many one-group raids does it have? Again, none, because that is group content, not raid content.

I am not the one doing the twisting around, when I hold them to what the word means.

But, y'all seem as likely to accept that as I am to accept any other obvious falsehood. SE calls it what they call it. I say they are wrong, that's not what raid means. You say that raid means whatever they say it means. Do "hit points" get to change their definition because SE says so? How about "magic points" or "armor class"? Or how about "sword" - are they allowed to take a suit of platemail and decide that it is an edged weapon?

Maximum number of people in the groups that comprise the raid are irrelevant. In FF14, it is 8 people. Other games have other numbers. Their raids are multi-group, as opposed to single group content. SE is the one ignoring the definition. Heck - did FF11 have any "one group raids" or were all that game's raids multi-group?

[Roth_Trailfinder]

Defined by WHO? Show me ANYTHING to back up your statement. You can't just take a word, change the dictionary meaning, and then mandate that every future game must now use it in this context. How arrogant are you?

I have now decided that MMO actually means first person shooter. Any person who now disagrees is wrong, and is using the term incorrectly.

That sentence makes as much sense as what you are saying.

We didn't change what "raid" means. SE, and people defending SE's choice to call BCoB and SCoB "raids,did.

[Kuwagami]

Defined by WHO? Show me ANYTHING to back up your statement. You can't just take a word, change the dictionary meaning, and then mandate that every future game must now use it in this context. How arrogant are you?

I have now decided that MMO actually means Mandatory Manderville Otter. Any person who now disagrees is wrong, and is using the term incorrectly.

fixed that for you

We didn't change what "raid" means. SE's choice to call BCoB and SCoB "raids" did.

fixed that too. Also, it's not because the general consensus is "raid = 2 or more groups" that you're doomed to use that definition each time. SE called it "raid", it's a raid. Deal with it

[SDaemon]

We didn't change what "raid" means. People defending SE's choice to call BCoB and SCoB "raids" did.

There is no changing of the word's meaning because there is no definite meaning of the word. If there were then everyone would define it the same way. There is and most likely never will be a consensus on the definition until game developers everywhere sit down and say "hmm yes this will be what is now a raid and shall be in any game made henceforth". Please just give up on your hopeless personal crusade. It wont make you right and it wont change Coil from being a raid in this game.

[Vahlnir]

We didn't change what "raid" means. People defending SE's choice to call BCoB and SCoB "raids" did.

This is FF XIV, other games are other games...none of which stick to the same numbers. What you believe is not an opinion to you, it is fact, therefore making your word law in your eyes. For everyone opposed to your opinion it's a lost cause trying to tell you otherwise. I'm sorry, but this game apparently has different standards than what you consider the "right" way, or the true definition. There is no actual standard for what is a raid or not. As it has been said already, SE made this game, so what they call a raid IS a raid in this game. You can either accept that, or people will continue disagreeing with you.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

There is no changing of the word's meaning because there is no definite meaning of the word. If there were then everyone would define it the same way. There is and most likely never will be a consensus on the definition until game developers everywhere sit down and say "hmm yes this will be what is now a raid and shall be in any game made henceforth". Please just give up on your hopeless personal crusade. It wont make you right it and it wont change Coil from being a raid in this game.

It can't make me something I already am.

However, I don't doubt that you're correct in saying that this won't get SE to get out of being wrong.

As for "no definite meaning of the word" ... rubbish. People have found MMO meanings for raid. And they were all, in one way or another, describing what I've been saying the whole time : multi-group events. Events that are too big for a single group to handle. Events that take more people when initially released than single-group content.

Now you're saying that all that doesn't matter because "there is no definite meaning of the word"? Nice way of saying we're both right when we contradict one another.

This is FF XIV, other games are other games...none of which stick to the same numbers. What you believe is not an opinion to you, it is fact, therefore making your word law in your eyes. For everyone opposed to your opinion it's a lost cause trying to tell you otherwise. I'm sorry, but this game apparently has different standards than what you consider the "right" way, or the true definition. There is no actual standard for what is a raid or not. As it has been said already, SE made this game, so what they call a raid IS a raid in this game. You can either accept that, or people will continue disagreeing with you.

When did I say that the numbers have to be consistent across all games? WoW has 2 and 5 group raids. EQ has 9 group raids. Wildstar .. I don't know their group size, but at 40 people, that's going to be a few groups.

The number of groups in the raid only matters in that to be a raid, its got to be greater than one. THAT is the constant. 1 group = one group content. 2 or more groups = raid content. Last I looked, 2, 5, 9, they are all greater than one group. FF14's raid, CT, is 3 groups. Again, more than one group.

Is one person a group? No. Is one person soloing somewhere doing group content? Maybe, if the character is strong enough to handle it. Is content designed for one person "group" content? No. Likewise, content designed for one group is not raid content. Is that soloer doing raid content? Could be, if the character is strong enough, which usually comes about as the game gets older and old raids do not increase in power with characters attempting them.

[Roris]

There is a distinct difference. You dismiss all other definitions and say they're wrong, calling SCoB t1-4 't6-9' and saying that they are synonyms meaning that both are equally correct, is not the same thing.

OP used a widely accepted synonym for multi group content in other MMOs, especially in the ones this game heavily borrows from, almost copied directly if you will. He then clarified on the different tiers of content depending on how many people are participating and their composition: solo, group and raid (multi group). Now since the term light means something isn't quite as heavy or full, a Full Party can be safely considered as single full group, just the one group. Then a couple of people who always take every bit of criticism personally decided this was a direct attack on the integrity of the game with direct critical accusations that the game doesn't have a lot of multi group content, which it doesn't by the way, and instantly dismissed everything he said especially knowing full well what he meant by using the term raid.

So yes, it is the same thing. If the game defines Coil as a raid therefore it must be one and must be called so by everyone, so by the same logic he should abide to calling it Second Coil because the game defines it as so, nowhere in the game does it state they are Turn 6 to 9, only the game's definition matters. It's simple really, wouldn't want people thinking anyone is a hypocrite or an apologist.