This game needs depth, Please implement a second weapon (playstyle) for each job

[lololink]

Do you have proof of this speculation?

It was said in the E3 live letter, which there is no Q&A sadly, but i found this :

Not really about jobs but :

Can you give us some more information on the Rogue Class and Ninja Job?
The Rogues were once thieves but through time they’ve evolved into their own respected guild. Why would a city allow a thieves guild? This is the reason they are not called thieves. Movement speed of the Rogue and Ninja will be faster than that of normal classes, and they will also take less falling damage than other classes. You can see in the video that the Rogue class adds poison to the weapons, and this is at the core of the Rogue class. Varieties of poison are added to weapons that change their properties and how they work in combat. The Ninja Job will also use these poisons and dual wielding abilities of the Rogue but also use Mudras in combinations and patterns that evolve from hand gesture to hand gesture to create Ninjutsu magic. Stealth abilities and moving from stealth into a technique will also be used by this job. The class/job is a DPS based class, with Healer and Tank classes coming later in the expansion pack.

http://www.novacrystallis.com/2014/0...announcements/

[Sylve]

subjob snip

Nooooooo nonononono.

Currently, leveling a secondary or tertiary class is entirely optional. The moment you force people to take Subjobs and then level them you remove that as an option. You then have the minmaxers that come along and numbercrunch to find the "perfect" subjob combination and its no longer variety.
You HAVE to be a Monk x Dragoon in order to obtain X Stat increase and Y skills in order to complete Z Raid.

Cross Class skills right now are VERY useful, but none of them are truly mandatory, and no content requires you to have them. Subjobs like the ones in your examples would be not only mandatory but force the Devs to tune content to the expectation that everyone including the leading edge of Raiders will have them.

It was said in the E3 live letter, which there is no Q&A sadly, but i found this :

Not really about jobs but :

http://www.novacrystallis.com/2014/0...announcements/

Please note the word CLASSES. He is referring to additional, new classes (like the Rogue is a new class) NOT additional Jobs. Every Job only has 1 base class. Therefore, he is referring to new Classes of Tanks and Healers, i speculate things like Samurai, Dark Knights and Geomancers etc.

[Amberion]

Problem is, is that eventually every "choice" you get will be Min/Maxed and only 1 build will be viable. And then you'll get kicked if you don't conform to the build. SE devs will see which builds are currently META and they will use those builds and party make-ups to test out new raids and content. If the content is being balanced around a certain META, then you can bet your bottom dollar that that META is going to stay META. Then, in the next patch, SE will say "Okay we're redoing the skill trees!" and the same thing will repeat.

see: League of Legends, World of Warcraft.

You can say "well SE can balance around a bunch of different builds and party make-ups" well, that just leads to sub-par content overall and trying to spread yourself too thin. The content would also probably be ridiculously easy once figured out and the builds and party make-ups were min/maxed.

As a veteran Ranger from FFXI, no one said anything if I choose to use X-bow or bow/gun. And those had a different play style.

[Kimikryo]

War could pretty much use every weapon in the game, all other jobs could only use a handful.
Also, most jobs could only skill up a certain weapon or two to the point that a DRK, for example, could skill up a Scythe and a Great Sword. So I don't understand what you're trying to refute here.

Drk could use, and skill up. Club, Sword, axe, great axe. dagger in addition to scythe and greatsword.
Axe, Great Axe, Sword even B- rating and dagger / club c/c- respectively.

DRK couldn't skillup/properly use 3 weapons staves, polearms and h2h.

[Jynx]

Still unsure why they are so stubornly stuck on the whole class/job system.

I'd love to see some data to show who even uses a class beyond the point they unlock their respective jobs.

[Valthein]

Still unsure why they are so stubornly stuck on the whole class/job system.

I'd love to see some data to show who even uses a class beyond the point they unlock their respective jobs.

originally it was created with the intent jobs would be used for dungeons and raids, classes for outside pve since you had more freedom of skill choices. but designing that and dumping it because players don't find it viable will require a whole new approach and take time resources money to re do in to a better or different system. They may very well be looking at a different way to do this but simple time constraint for implementation could be holding it back. ask it in the live letters Q&A get ur fc to vote it up so it gets asked.

[ShinkuTachi]

Drk could use, and skill up. Club, Sword, axe, great axe. dagger in addition to scythe and greatsword.
Axe, Great Axe, Sword even B- rating and dagger / club c/c- *Marksmanship e (w/crossbows, but not guns) respectively.

DRK couldn't skillup/properly use 3 weapons staves, polearms and h2h *Great Katanas, Katanas, Archery (but could use bows), and throwing (but could use pebbles)

^fixed

Exactly! A handful of weapons, only two of which could be wielded efficiently. The others could only be useful in extremely situational circumstances; however, they never warranted any real necessity and DRK was relegated by the playerbase to Scythes and Great Swords only (though I also always carried a ranged weapon with me too). Thereby, the ability to equip those extra weapons is made pointless. Thereby, the whole idea of "player choice" concerning weapons in FFXI was an illusion; or rather, was extremely limited.

So, unless something happened post abyssiea (when I moved on to thief, dancer, and sam) that completely changed how DRK was played, then please inform me.

Again, I don't understand what you're trying to debate here.
If you're just trying to be right about something, then I concede. This discussion is going in circles.

[Jynx]

but designing that and dumping it because players don't find it viable will require a whole new approach and take time resources money to re do in to a better or different system.

How would it be hard to cut the classes and just start players off as a job?

It would take minimal effort as only one class actually branches off like they are supposed to. Storywise it doesn't need to be changed and mechanics wise only scholar would require a slight rework or they could just leave it as is.

Try and find a reason it would actually be hard/time consuming to cut the class system instead of the massive ammounts of time they are wasting trying to balance a "Class" and then add a job on the end of it. They must have wasted countless man hours making "Rogue" it's own thing then just tack on Ninja mutras.

At this point it has to be a pride thing, a system they refuse to let die because it would show weakness or some nonsense.

[Tiggy]

Player picks easiest DPS in the game and complains about a lack of depth. Lol.

[Tiggy]

Cross Class skills right now are VERY useful, but none of them are truly mandatory, and no content requires you to have them.

I agree with everything else you said but this. As a tank provoke is 100% required for tank swapping mechanics that exist in most endgame battles. It's not an option at all. It takes one of my cross class slots no matter what. In my opinion War needs a native provoke.