Red Mage: The one class that will be impossible to impliment

[Tharian]

snip

Your analysis of what a Red Mage is, is rather dated. That is what a Red Mage WAS, back in Final Fantasy ONE. It hasn't been that since at least Final Fantasy Tactics (the first one). And it definitely ceased being that entirely as soon as Final Fantasy XI came out.

Also you say you want Spellfencer, but suddenly decide that Red Mage is impossible? You can't make one impossible without the other also being impossible. They both access Black and White Magic in the same manner, they just access different spells from both disciplines. While we are banning classes that use both White and Black Magic equally, we might as well also ban the Twincaster and the Sage, as those both have access to both types of magic as well.

Let's continue the first train of thought. As of Final Fantasy XI, while the Red Mage had access to Tier IV Black Magic, and certain Tier V White Magic (where as the Black Mage had access to Tier V Black Magic and was able to cast Ancient Magic, and the White Mage had access to all Tier V White Magic), the Red Mage had a unique repertoire of spells that neither the White Mage or Black Mage had access to. These were the En-Spells (Enaero, Enwater, Enblizzard, etc...), and the Spikes Spells (the only other class that could use any of these spells was the Summoner, who only got access to them via his or her Summons, and only for a short time), not to mention the ALMIGHTY Phalanx spell.

What Phalanx was, is a spell that was unique to the Summoner and Red Mage (the Summoner only had access to it after obtaining the Diabolos Summon, which was really rather difficult to do if you weren't prepared for it). Phalanx was a spell that basically absorbed a huge chunk of damage. The damage absorbed was generally speaking about equal to what could be absorbed by a standard Stoneskin spell. The thing about it though was that it could be applied at the same time as Stoneskin, meaning that you could have Stoneskin, Blink (or Utsusemi if you are a RDM/NIN, or NIN/RDM), and Phalanx up all at the same time. This basically led to a near indestructible character for as long as those spells are in effect. Add to that your En-Spell of Choice, and Ice Spikes (a spike spell that causes a chance to paralyze your foe each time said foe strikes you) and your Red Mage effectively became a 1-man killing squad.

Basically, Red Mage is no longer simply a weaker hybrid of two classes. Rather it is now what is more commonly referred to in the oldest Role Playing Game on the Planet as the Fighter/Mage Cross-Class character.

If even a portion of that is used as a basis for FFXIV's Red Mage, then I will be happy!

Level 4 isn't much of a grind really is it? Lol.

No, I think she meant Quelling Strikes (the one that reduces enmity gain, and is actually required for high level BLM's and SMN's), not Raging Strikes. Level 34 is a bit more of a Grind, don't'ya think?

[Morningstar1337]

Snip

Somehow I knew this thread would get some controversy. I apologize, my pror FF experience conssted of the later titles (XII, then X) as well as KH, nether one of those had classes. I also played Bravely Default (in fact That's how I knew of the Spellfencer and other classes) But I thought the magic was the red mage's focus.

As for the Spellfencer comparison. I like to point out that there are the En- spells and they were different from the normal spells, the Spellfencer class (again My only experience with a SE game with classes was BD) seem to lack healing spells.

Likewise my MMO history did not include XI. So I had no idea about the exclusive Phlanax OR the fact that they had En- spells (Not really much of an excuse though if XI was the game of origin for those spells)

I'm sorry for being ignorant about the Red mage in later games.

Also No, I meant Raging Strikes. In hindsight though quelling would have made a better analogy, but the point was that the combat classes seem to have spells that can only be learned by leveling a particular class, meaning that new abilities would need to be invented for the Red mage (This was before taking into account the support pool idea TenganLaron had or the evolution to "Spellfencer with healing spells" version you told me about)

[WellFooled]

Your analysis of what a Red Mage is, is rather dated. That is what a Red Mage WAS, back in Final Fantasy ONE. It hasn't been that since at least Final Fantasy Tactics (the first one). And it definitely ceased being that entirely as soon as Final Fantasy XI came out.

I came to post this same thought, but my inner Final Fantasy fanatic has to correct you. There were no Red Mages in Final Fantasy Tactics :x But excellent point! Carry on!

[Tharian]

I came to post this same thought, but my inner Final Fantasy fanatic has to correct you. There were no Red Mages in Final Fantasy Tactics :x But excellent point! Carry on!

Huh... you appear to be correct on this one... silly me. Though the Time Mage (god I feel silly just saying that Job's name in relation to anything other than Yu-Gi-Oh) or Calculator could conceivably qualify. Probably more so the Calculator than the Time Mage seeing as how the requirements to unlock the Calculator was to have a level 4 Priest, Level 4 Wizard, Level 3 Time Wizard, and Level 3 Oracle all on the same character.

[WellFooled]

Calculator could conceivably qualify.

Is it a bad thing that I want to derail this thread to discuss a Calculator job for FFXIV? :x

"OMG L2Dodge Landslides!"

"I can't dodge and multiply triple digits at the same time! Has to be one or the other! And I choose MATH!"

[Tharian]

Is it a bad thing that I want to derail this thread to discuss a Calculator job for FFXIV? :x

"OMG L2Dodge Landslides!"

"I can't dodge and multiply triple digits at the same time! Has to be one or the other! And I choose MATH!"

While that would indeed be epic, I think the fail of that would also be epic.

Anyways, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance DID have a Red Mage Class. So while I was wrong about the first Final Fantasy Tactics, I wasn't wrong about Final Fantasy Tactics as a whole...

And thank you by the way, for not saying "MATHS!" I can't stand people who spell it like that...

[WellFooled]

Anyways, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance DID have a Red Mage Class. So while I was wrong about the first Final Fantasy Tactics, I wasn't wrong about Final Fantasy Tactics as a whole...

Aha! but you specifically said, "Final Fantasy Tactics (the first one)". Which implied the first game and not the series as a whole.

Again, inner Final Fantasy fanatic. I really can't stop.

[Duelle]

Anyways, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance DID have a Red Mage Class. So while I was wrong about the first Final Fantasy Tactics, I wasn't wrong about Final Fantasy Tactics as a whole...

*twitch* There's no such thing as Final Fantasy Tactics Advance.

Red mage is impossible to be implemented because :

-If they make it a fencer with spell, people will whine.
-If they make it a FFXI supporter way, people will whine.

There's an easy answer to that. You make it a magic fencer => the people from the melee camp, who have been urinated on by FFXI's developers for several years now, will finally have somewhere to go where they don't have to deal with FFXI's attempts at making cheap imitations to quiet them down. The people that want to play buffbot/refresh-whore/"support" can just go play FFXI. They're even adding more enfeebles to the job there just to show how much they are not listening to the melee camp. Win-win for SE and the RDM community. It might even give birth to funny memes of XI's RDM vs XIV's RDM.

Because the definition of a RDM in FF11 was "Power's it self and sword up to a godly level using both light and dark magic to aid in it's efforts"(it's something like this any ff pre 2012 will tell you this). However you would see people get in arguments when a rdm would try to do anything other then heal, or cast debuffs.

That's more due to how the job was designed and what it was balanced around. XI had several issues, including the fact that they intentionally made RDM and BRD a source of MP regen, which when combined with the game's lack of healers outside of WHM AND the rush people had to get to 75 ASAP meant anyone with an MP bar that was not dealing damage equal to 2K+ spiral hells was instantly not worthy of a DPS slot and should just sub WHM and heal. The MP battery thing simply made it worse because a RDM became most beneficial to a group healing and spamming refresh. So you had people that wanted their MP batteries and healers to stay where they were, RDMs that loved the easy invites and pull they had in parties (AKA princess Red Mages) insulting the guys that wanted more out of the job since, you know, RDM is a guy with a sword that uses magic.

[Urielparadox]

That's more due to how the job was designed and what it was balanced around. XI had several issues, including the fact that they intentionally made RDM and BRD a source of MP regen, which when combined with the game's lack of healers outside of WHM AND the rush people had to get to 75 ASAP meant anyone with an MP bar that was not dealing damage equal to 2K+ spiral hells was instantly not worthy of a DPS slot and should just sub WHM and heal. The MP battery thing simply made it worse because a RDM became most beneficial to a group healing and spamming refresh. So you had people that wanted their MP batteries and healers to stay where they were, RDMs that loved the easy invites and pull they had in parties (AKA princess Red Mages) insulting the guys that wanted more out of the job since, you know, RDM is a guy with a sword that uses magic.

I'm talking original release rdm your talking 3 years after launch rdm.

[Alise]

*twitch* There's no such thing as Final Fantasy Tactics Advance.
There's an easy answer to that. You make it a magic fencer => the people from the melee camp, who have been urinated on by FFXI's developers for several years now, will finally have somewhere to go where they don't have to deal with FFXI's attempts at making cheap imitations to quiet them down. The people that want to play buffbot/refresh-whore/"support" can just go play FFXI. They're even adding more enfeebles to the job there just to show ho

Nope, that isn't the win answer. You can't call them to go back to play FFXI, and that is it.
it is wrong to judge one side correct and one side wrong. Else they may ask you to go back to play different game or something similar.

Especially, SE, it is their lose to make either side of customers angry. They probably have to weight either they will angry more people by not releasing it, by releasing it. They also have to weight their resource they need to spend before implement whether the amount of spending is worth on the amount of angry customers they can solve or not. Instead of releasing RMD, they could alternatively release another job all together that doesn't need to worry with angry customers. For example, releasing something else that people would want it, and won't debate much over it.