Red Mage: The one class that will be impossible to impliment

[lololink]

We also know that since FF1 that RDM has always used the EN Spells

Wait, what ?
EnSpell appeared with FF11, the closest abilities are the magic blade from rune knights.

[niwaar]

The title of the thread should be changed to something more like "Red Mage: The One Class That Is Impossible To Implement So Everyone Will Like It"

Red Mages can be implemented. But unlike FFXI where they were a Jack of All Trades and a Master of Haste, FFXIV's strict Role system will not allow them to be the hybrid class they so desperately want to be. Red Mage's in XI fit into the Support Role. They were the "equals" of Bard's and Corsairs (and sometimes Summoners) in their ability to buff a group and keep it going over long periods. Sure, they often times were able to fill the Healer role as well, but mostly when incoming group damage and status effects were minimal. They also were the masters of the solo/low man group content due to their flexibility. But in XIV we are saddled with having to fit into a single role. Which role should that be?

Well, we could end up with a Arcanist=Scholar/Summoner set up? YoshiP has come out and admitted that the dual Job from one class was an experiment and in his mind, was not a success. So we can pretty much ignore this as a possibility. (Unless they go and revamp the class/job system which YoshiP has hinted may come with an expansion.)

What we have left is a choice. Do we make Red Mage into a DPS or a Healer? The obvious fit for the game is to make Red Mage into a healer. The game desperately needs a third healer job. But where does that leave the hybrid side of the "definition" of the job? Well, It would allow the Red Mage to be a healer not unlike what the current paradigm of the Scholar healer is. Heal when needed, DPS when you can. Is this fun?

If you go with the DPS role, what exactly do you turn a Red Mage into as a DPS? Typically a Red Mage would be a nuker not unlike a Black Mage, just not as powerful. How do you deal with that imbalance in a game where all DPS are supposed to be made "balanced"? I'm not sure you could if you made them a pure nuker. The next choice would be to make them into the job that the XI devs originally saw Red Mage as, the BattleMage/FencerMage. Red Mage would then be a melee who nuked on combo's and used EnSpells to do their damage. This would more fit into the XIV job system, but would everyone be happy with it? No!

So, While we will get Red Mage (more than likely sooner than later), not everyone will be happy with the Job. The only way to make everyone be happy would to be to redesign the Job/Role/Party paradigm for 3.0 and beyond. The 1 Tank, 1 Healer, 2 DPS (x) paradigm needs to go and the 1 Tank, 1 Healer, 1 Support, 2 DPS(x2) Paradigm needs to step up. Hell I'd love to see the XI 6, 12, 18 person groups come back and XIV's 4,8,24 leave.

[Duelle]

Red Mage's in XI fit into the Support Role. They were the "equals" of Bard's and Corsairs (and sometimes Summoners) in their ability to buff a group and keep it going over long periods.

That's not something you can build a job around. If you want a niche per job, sure, at the risk of having that job become useless once the player trends set in.

YoshiP has come out and admitted that the dual Job from one class was an experiment and in his mind, was not a success.

Might wanna point me to this since I've never seen it mentioned in any of the recent interviews.

What we have left is a choice. Do we make Red Mage into a DPS or a Healer? The obvious fit for the game is to make Red Mage into a healer. The game desperately needs a third healer job.

Chemist and Green Mage. There, you have two jobs that can actually work as healers instead of shoehorning RDM into that role. Again.

If you go with the DPS role, what exactly do you turn a Red Mage into as a DPS? Typically a Red Mage would be a nuker not unlike a Black Mage, just not as powerful. How do you deal with that imbalance in a game where all DPS are supposed to be made "balanced"?

Procs and limitations on what the job can do in ranged. That can be achieved by either removing all options of ranged spells from the job when outside of procs/combos or making said ranged spells cost a lot more resources and/or become cumbersome to use outside of procs/combos.

This would more fit into the XIV job system, but would everyone be happy with it? No!

Here's the thing: from a concept standpoint the Red Mage doesn't work in the environment of an MMORPG. There's too many things that don't work. This in itself is fine because something would have to be changed for it to work within that framework. If you liked spamming debuffs or spamming refresh you could ask for a job such as Oracle, Geomancer or even Calculator. In concept such framework would work for those jobs whereas for RDM it's, for lack of better words, a slap to the face.

So, While we will get Red Mage (more than likely sooner than later), not everyone will be happy with the Job. The only way to make everyone be happy would to be to redesign the Job/Role/Party paradigm for 3.0 and beyond.

This is false. If people would wrap their brains around the fact that certain single-player FF concepts do not work in an MMORPG the issue sort of goes away, because you know concessions and changes have to be made in order for certain jobs to work. Geomancer had to be changed into an aura-focused job to be inserted into FFXI. Summoners became a pet class with DoTs in FFXIV to actually function and prevent the idiocy of FFXI's summoner. Red Mage would be no different because the combat mechanics for the job would have to be different for it to exist in FFXIV.

[Wildsprite]

Red Mages can be implemented. But unlike FFXI where they were a Jack of All Trades and a Master of Haste, FFXIV's strict Role system will not allow them to be the hybrid class they so desperately want to be.

the fact that they have said atleast a few times they plan to impliment the "hybrid" role kinda blows that argument out of the water. sure if they impliment it now it wouldn't work too well but after they add the "hybrid" role to duties it will work out great

[Duelle]

the fact that they have said atleast a few times they plan to impliment the "hybrid" role kinda blows that argument out of the water. sure if they impliment it now it wouldn't work too well but after they add the "hybrid" role to duties it will work out great

Segregating hybrids into their own role isn't going to help anyone. It has been mentioned but I foresee a mess and then some.

[Morningstar1337]

Thought I'd revisit this thread with my own idea for Red Mage (albeit inspired from other ideas for the class) as well as a Fencer class to go with it:

• Role: Tank
• Base Class: Fencer
• Fencers began with nobles who wanted to partake in their battles, they trained alongside their own men and ofthen led then into battle. Earning respect as both a King/Queen and as the general. A side effect is them inspiring the Garleans and the Grand Company leaders to lead in both combat and politics
• Weapon of Choice: Rapiers engraved with Runes. The off hand will be a glyph/hologram that appears like a shield but is used to enchant the blade
• Skill Set
  • Sabre Thrust: 100 potency attack and main combo starter
  • Enblizzard: aspects the blade with ice. All unaspected attacks now give Umbral Ice to the caster
  • Enfire: aspects the blade with fire. All unaspected attacks now give Astral Fire to the caster
  • General Stance: Switches INT with STR.
  • Poison Thrust: Combo Attack that posions. Has a potency of 150 when comboed with Sabre thrust
  • Enstone: aspects the blade with earth. All unaspected attacks now increase emity
  • Enthunder: aspects the blade with levin (lightning). All unaspected attacks now inflict thunder status on the target
  • Silence Slash: Combo attack that silences. Has a potency of 230 when comboed with Sabre Thrust and 280 when comboed with Posion thrust.
  • Enaero: aspected the blade with wind. All unaspected attacks now inflict Aero on the enemy
  • Sleep Slash: Combo attack that puts an enemy to sleep.
  • Aspir Thrust: Works the same as Riot Blade. Can be comboed with Sabre Thrust.
  • Enwater: aspects the blade with water. All unaspected attacks now Stun
  • Drain Thrust: Attack that heals a percentage of the damage. Can be comboed with Sabre, Poison, Silence and Aspir Thrust with a potency ranging from 80 to 200 depending on the combo.
  • Enholy: aspects the blade with light. All unaspected attacks now have a chance to heal party members as well as increased emity
  • Spikes: gives Spikes status based on aspect of the blade. (Level 15 quest reward)
  • Phalanx: spell that adds a status effect that reduces damaged based on your other statuses (be it aliments or other enchantments) (Level 30 quest award)
• NOTE: all En- skills can be used between attacks in a combo.
• Traits
  • Enhanced Enblizzard: increased enmity from ice attacks when used on those weak to ice
  • Enhanced Enfire: increased enmity from fire attacks when used on this weak to fire
  • Enhanced Intelligence
  • Enhanced Enstone: increased emity from earth attacks when use on those weak to earth
  • Enhanced Enthunder: increased emity from levin attacks when used on those weak to levin
  • Enhanced Phalanx: Phalanx also counts the statuses from the enemy that has the most statuses
  • Enhanced Enaero: increased emity from wind attacks when used on those weak to wind
  • Enhanced Enwater: increased emity from water attacks when used on those weak to water
  • Refresh: Allies gain MP after you finish a combo, you gain the same amount multiplied by the amount of enemies attacking you
  • Enhanced Enholy: increased enmity all attacks and a chance to Raise KO'd allies.
• Cross-Class abilities
  • Blizzard II
  • Blizzard III
  • Fire II
  • Fire III
  • Swiftcast
  • Flash
  • Provoke
  • Convalesce
  • Ruin
  • Resserection
  • Psysick
  • Provoke
  • Cure
  • Raise
  • Medica
  • Raging Strikes

Now for the Red Mage job

• Red mages are those who studied the art of Black and White magic. However they are also swordsmen of excellent caliber. They are devotes of balance, believing that both Black and White magic should not be used in extremes. In fact they themselves seldom use the most powerful spells of Thaumaturgy and Conjury, willingly limiting their power to this end. However that is not to say they don't have dangerous techniques of their own (needs Fencer 30 and Thamaturge 15. Takes skills from Gladiator)
• Skills
  • Haste: reduces spell and skill time as well as global cooldown (affects all members of the party)
  • Slow Thrust: combo attack that inflicts slow 250 potency when comboed with Posion Thrust
  • Blood Magic: Enchantment that makes it so that Damage is taken from MP and TP but spells and skills must be cast from HP. Healing also will work on MP instead of HP
  • Restoration: Revives one party member.
  • Spectrum Thrust: Only usable in after all the En- spells are used in 2-3 comboes and you're in Astral Fire. a 300 potency attack that inflicts Thunder and Aero on your target and Regen and Umbral Ice on you and your party. Also takes 500 TP so beware
• Cross-Class skills
  • Flash
  • Provoke
  • Covalesent
  • Swiftcast
  • Transpose
  • Lethargy

I know it's not the best way to go about it. But I wnated to try theorizing a possible red mage class.

[AceofRains]

I see Rogue as a perfect outlet to create Red Mage. I can see this playing off of Rogue's blade enchantments much in the way XI's Red Mage used En-spells.