CT - Taking the Bone Dragon to the True North

[Donjo]

I was in a CT the other day with some of my FC and decided to tank the Bone Dragon since I appeared to be the most geared Tank in the dungeon. Not that it really matters, but nobody else was stepping up, so why not?

Except that I apparently performed the ultimate Taboo: I tanked the Bone Dragon in the middle of the room! There was initially no complaint about this. We just took the Dragon down, took the skeletons to the spokes, etc. However, two skeletons died on top of each other, so the raid nearly wiped. It was at this point that people started complaining. People seemed to think that the fact that the Dragon was in the middle was the cause of the near wipe. Other tanks even tried to provoke the Dragon off of me! As a result of this fight for aggro(at least, I think this was the cause), not all of the skeletons were dead by the time the Dragon went down for the second time. This time, we actually wiped.

Of course, the "dragon in the middle" strategy was blamed again. However, it's clear from what actually happened in the fight that the location of the Dragon was not to blame. It was poor skeleton control, pure and simple. The other tank in my group, just to prove that the Dragon's location wasn't an issue, kept it in the middle again. We killed the first group of skeletons without any reaching the dragon, amidst people already calling that we were going to wipe. After this, we decided to go ahead and pull the dragon north so as to not cause further unnecessary panic. Funnily enough, this was when skeletons got harder to control and a couple reached the boss next round.

So, I have to ask. What's so wrong about tanking the Dragon in the middle? To me, it honestly feels like the way the fight was intended to be tackled. I'll try to analyze both methods(Dragon in Middle and Dragon at North) a bit here.

+ = Pros
- = Cons
+/- = A fact that isn't construed as being wholly positive or negative


Dragon in the Middle

+ All spokes of the compass can be used to control skeletons.
+ Uncontrolled skeletons go toward the middle, not the north(in my experience, it's a MT healer who tends to steal aggro, so the skeleton heads north). It's easier for Tanks to get them back.
+ The large area in the middle allows Melee to get their back and flank bonuses without stepping into the poison.
+ Keeps the entire party together for ease of area healing.
+ No risk of skeletons on different spokes linking.
+ All skeletons just travel down their lanes. Melee and Tanks can chase them without unnecessary time in the poison.
+ Chaos Breath(The huge cone that causes Hysteria) won't fill the entire arena if the dragon turns around for some reason(MT death, loss of aggro, etc.)
+ Melee don't have to travel as far to go from skeletons to the boss and back.
+ Ranged DPS can stand in the middle of a lane to be in range of attacking both the boss and the skeleton in that lane.

+/- All skeletons have to travel the same distance to the boss.
+/- Tanks can help DPS the boss if not tanking a skeleton

- Greater party organization is required to kill all skeletons in time. 2-3 DPS need to be assigned per skeleton so as to kill them all at relatively the same time.
- Melee has to pay greater attention to positioning to avoid stepping in front of the boss.
- It's not what most people know.

Dragon in the North

+ Some skeletons are farther away from the boss than the previous method.
+ The boss isn't in the way of seeing that one skeleton everyone missed.
+ Easier to stay behind the boss due to no "safe" zones on the flank.
+ It's what most people know.

- Some skeletons are closer to the boss than the previous method.
- Shared routes can allow skeletons to end up linking even if they're killed apart.
- Skeletons take longer routes and travel through more poison. Melee/Tanks take unnecessary damage while chasing them.
- The small safe area near the boss isn't enough for Melee to get positional bonuses without stepping into the poison.
- Half of the alliance is at the boss and half is at the middle. Raidwide healing is more difficult.
- If the dragon turns around and uses Chaos breath, too many people will get inflicted with Hysteria to save the raid, most likely.
- The Dragon occasionally will run away from the tank to use an attack intended for a random party member if said party member is far enough away.
- Melee has to run around a lot to go after skeletons.

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Of course, it goes without saying that the fight can be won using either method. However, taking the dragon North is inefficient in so many ways. Why has the opinion that "It cannot be done any other way" surfaced?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I've ALWAYS seen the dragon tanked in the middle. I don't know where people have gotten the idea that it's meant to be taken north, but looking at the composition of the room, it's meant to be tanked in the center. Look at its size, and factor in that the room periodically fills with poison. You are in fact supposed to fight it in the center. YOU as the tank did right. People killing skeletons on op of each other screwed up and blamed it on you. THEY'RE the ones in the wrong. Keep doing what you're doing.

[Vladislav]

Just tank in middle (it's allways better to use strat , that most ppl's expecting from you !)

[givemeraptors]

Woah, I've never seen anyone tank it in the middle but it seems to make a ton of sense. Now I do have to wonder who thought to bring it up North...

[Lithera]

Definitely needs to be in the middle. The north thing came up because people figured it was better to point the dragon's conals into a wall rather than over a spoke. Tanking it north screws the melees pretty hard as it's near impossible to flank it and if the positioning is bad it can even be a chore to fight from behind and not wind up in the poison.

[KillyBamp]

Haven't been in CT for a while but every time I've done it, dragon was tanked in the middle and I've never been in a party that wiped at that stage.

[Donjo]

What? Am I really the only person who has only seen it taken North? This is amusing.

[Lollie]

Center when the fight is done right is the better position, yes. The north tanking position's sole purpose is to buy more time for people who were handling the mechanics correctly to fix the situation when errors occured. It extends the time it takes the far skeletons to reach the dragon and staggar the timing. This allowed the healers more time to cure bomb after stacked skeletons and makes it possible for as little as 1 ranged dps to prioritize and kill all skeletons based on priority of distance and likelyness to link up.

Also some of the points listed as negetives above are incorrect or miss-interpreted in execution.
"All spokes can be used" implying mor are available, false you are just trading the north spoke for the ability to drop one in the center.

"Uncontrolled skeletons go to the center" true however if your healers aren't completely lacking in understanding of their job they will be maximizing their caste coverage which will put them oddly enough near the center of the arena in either strat. They will most definatly be the ones drawing the uncontrolled skeletons.

Flanking pros and cons in both sections are incorrect. Amounts of space is irrelevant positionsals are off the center point of the target regardless if you are standing in its frame or not. Being further away increases the area not the radial requirement, and nothing is stopping the melee from standing in the same spot.

"Keeps the party together for aoe heals" either way they are going to be clustered together if the healers are positioning in the correct spot for aoe heals regardless.

"Keeps ranged in range of all skeletons and boss" true, however from the center platform they will be in range of all spokes including the one the boss is on anyway.

"Some skeletons are closer to the boss" given there relative low hp when spreading across the spokes is done properly the distance even from the closest spoke is irrelevant even for a single ranged killing both. Further north position allows you to place skeletons on more platforms in the same lane the south one for the extreme example can have a skeleton place one on each platform. They are all moving the same direction in the same lane far enough apart to not gain the flee buff. This coupled with placing a 4th skeleton in the center in similar fashion eliminates the need to even consider the closest spokes to the north position.

Just to reiterate before people start bashing. I prefer the center method, it is the optimal position for fight speed, when done correctly. I only addressed the listed items that I found flawed in interpretation of the reason why above, i agree with all other items in both lists above. That said the north position can be "idiot proofed" with a fewer number of competent people then the center position.

[Kimbot]

Damn fools they is, tanking anywhere else but the center.

[KingOfAbyss]

MT - Center (and North of the center small diameter)

OT (5) - Take the skels the furtest away from center, each skel that appears must be on a separate line. (sometimes could need help from Healer that got hate, healer will move like a tank all the way until catched up)

DPS - needs to wait 'a bit' so that skel is all the way on the last plate.

/job done.

Seriously, they made you feel bad (in CT, really? These days? Nuuuuu) /sarcasm

23 players and you must 'try' to work together with them.

If DPS killed too fast while OT tried to pull skel on another line and ends up on the same line.. DPS fault.

You were saying OT were trying to fight over your enmity. o.O Their fault.

And yes you are right then that skels acted like this cause the OT who's supposed to get it.. was on your dragon.. (could have been saved still, but seems not)

/a chat is there to communicate to everyone, if you say you MT it, and all agrees, no one should pull it from you.

What I do when I lose enmity: I switch as an OT, and do that role. (you said you didn't want but now you are confident enough? Feel free.. If we wipe.. lol )

I am sorry, these days CT, even with 150 myth, is far from being enticing to get in, with the amount of bad stuff happening there, and rage/pointers.

Why do you think people are asking for complete 24 FC runs..

Very sad cause some bad people ruin the fun from others *shrugs*

♪This is the world we live in..♫