This needs to stop !

[ClaireAbigail]

I believe both are at fault assuming that majority of the party agreed to going through all the areas. The healer held the party hostage by not healing the tank and the tank should've listened to the majority and dealt with the few extra min doin the optional stuff

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

They are responsible for the survival of the group, so the tank should always get the last say so in how to run a dungeon rather his pug likes it or not.

Yeah. . . I offered to help 2 FC mates run Brayflox HM (I don't like running it, and since I'm not trying to get an Animus/Novus weapon, I have no need to speed run it), and upon entering, I - the tank - told the one random person with us "FYI, this won't be a speed run.". . . He proceeds to have a problem with it and say "this dungeon is for speed-running" and "you're a troll". I respond with, "If you wanted to SR, I understand and no hard feelings if you want to leave, but I'm NOT going to speed run this."

After getting into it with the 1 out of 4 party members who actually WANTED to speed run, it got so bothersome that I myself decided to leave. And remember, I was the tank this time.

. . .So what was that part about the tank controlling the pace of the run? Because clearly, that didn't seem to fly. And to be honest, I wouldn't expect it to. That pretty much played out like I thought it would.

Also, I'm calling BS on the "Tanks are already stressed out about their jobs". First off, if tanking stresses someone out, they probably shouldn't be a tank. Hell, if playing a game stresses you out, then you're simply forgetting the entire reason people play games - to have FUN. To kill the rebuttal now: I started as a tank. It got boring fast. I DPS and heal, and find it more fun. More engaging. I'll still tank every now and then, and I personally throw myself at harder content, so don't assume fun = "he must be a casual". Not in the least.

Beyond that, and ESPECIALLY since I am/was a tank, I challenge this sense of grandeur and near-dictatorship some tanks have. I said it before and I'll say it again: Shields, axes, and armor don't make a tank. The mindset to protect your TEAM, mitigate threats, and adapt to the situation is what makes a tank.

You may lead, but any leader that disregards his team in favor of his own whims or thinks himself greater than the whole won't be a leader or keep a team very long.

[Poringing]

A lot of misconceptions regarding party dynamics found in this thread; let's clear this up:

Tank
Has near total control regarding maximum pace of the party, but very little control over minimum pace of the party.
The tank decides whether this will be a speed run or not, and how extreme the speed run is.
However, the tank's damage output is low, usually <1/6 a good party's total output.

Healer
Has most of the control regarding minimum pace of the party, and also some control over the maximum pace of the party.
If the healer does put out damage, this will be a fast run, regardless of the other party members. (Note: Since dungeons are designed with 0 healer damage output, healer's damage output is very significant when others aren't doing a lot of damage)
Also, a lot of content just cannot be done without a co-operative healer. On the other hand, a geared and experienced healer can cover for the tank for all 4-man content.

DPS
Has some control over both maximum and minumum pace of the party.
Even if both the attackers are very good at what they do, they are limited by the tank actually deciding to speed run or not; and if they are not that good, an attacking healer can sort of cover for them.

It's pretty obvious who has the most control over the party here: The healer. Seriously, they can hold the party hostage anytime. It will be completely impossible to do anything if there are no other casters in the party (BLM and SMN).

So, why are tanks given the role to lead the party? Respect. Simple as that. Everyone's answer to this thread can be boiled down to this, "Do you respect the tradition that dictates tanks lead?"

Personally:
I always run healer for low level roulettes: Control minimum pace.
While I always get into a party of 2 (preferably tank and healer) for high level roulettes. Fun fact: By running high level roulettes in a party of 2 (or 3), you have absolute control over the party (you want to /manderville for a full minute after every successful kill, you got it). Just fire the vote kick first and you'll definately have your way (in a group of 3, you can even torture all the people who joined in-progress). Pretty disturbing, huh?

[Vladislav]

Usually i ask party if they want kill trash/ check every room , BUT if i need to rush , i will rush w/o asking or just leave.

[PetiteMalFleur]

Extra trash in stone vigil is just a pain. Even when leveling I'd opt to skip trash in there. It just isn't worth the effort to kill even for the exp.

[TouchandFeel]

This really just seems like a situation of "I want something because I feel its best for me and somebody wants something else because its best for them, but I should get my way."

Keep in mind that if it is a lvl50 doing roulette for tomes or running a low lvl dungeon for a book, they are going want to be in and out as quickly as possible because, well grinding for that stuff can be tedious and nobody really wants to stretch it out any more than they have to.

However if someone in the group is new to a dungeon or asks if they can do a full clear, whatever high lvls be it the tank or whoever, should be willing to help them out and do the full clear, as long as they are polite about it.

Now, IMO killing all the mobs is not necessarily the most effective way to get xp. I find doing multiple quick runs to be more productive for getting drops and xp than more drawn out full clears. If you need or want the achievement for mapping a dungeon, that is a different story and totally valid.

Speaking specifically about Stone Vigil, I feel the side rooms are really not worth it. They aren't necessary for the achievement and the chests in them tend to have junk loot in them that isn't worth the inventory space they take up. Worn chef's apron ... um, no thanks. As to the xp that would be gained by killing these mobs, I stick to my previous statement that multiple quick clears are more productive than longer full clears.

Lastly, if you want to do a dungeon in one specific way, that is what the Party Finder is for. If you are using the Duty Finder, you really need to just adjust to what situation you end up with and what the majority of the group you ended up with wants. This goes both ways, don't force speed runs and don't force full clears, appraise the situation and if in doubt ask what the group would like or be okay with.

[Tyrial]

Snip.

There is one chest in Stone Vigil that offers "good loot" that is optional and that's right after killing the first boss. The other chest(s) that got skipped are nothing but crafting mats stuck behind a few mobs that honestly aren't worth killing. As far as I remember you get the mapping achievement without even having to engage the mobs in either of those rooms (just walk up the stairs for the first and run right by the second).

What really needs to stop is this epidemic where people feel they're entitled to have everything their way in a group regardless of what the majority wants. You're in a Duty Finder 4/8-person dungeon and 3/7 want to do a speed run? Majority wins. Don't like it you can leave and not act like a child. Same situation and 3/7 of the 4/8 people want to take it slow? Same deal.

If nobody else voiced a concern with skipping 5 or so monsters then what is the big deal? If losing the EXP from those few monsters is the biggest crisis you face then I really wish I lived in your world.

[Yonko]

snip

Then you should be able to vote kick yourself out of the dungeon without taking a penalty. Just because the majority wants to do a SR doesn't mean I have to and it doesn't mean I should take a penalty because I don't want to SR.

Normally I end up just doing the SR but it has led to me ensuring I'm on certain jobs for certain roulettes due to not liking doing SRs of brayflox on certain jobs (I've done it on every job I have I just prefer if I'm going to SR with randoms to be on some jobs over others.)

[Sapphic]

Tanks are already stressed out enough by their jobs. If they don’t want to honor one of your requests, please stop demanding that they play the way you want them to. They are not obligated to help you do anything.

Don't know what game you're playing, but tanking in FFXIV stressful? lol, newp. Tanked everything as WAR and PLD outside second coil, and tanking is, in most fights, the easiest role. Even our main tank in SCoB jokes that they have the easiest role in t6-8 (we havnt done 9 yet so no comment on that).

Tanking stressfull in FFXIV? Far from it.

[Worm]

The tank has the most responsibilities; He leads the group, decides when to engage, and controls the pace of the run. They are responsible for the survival of the group, so the tank should always get the last say so in how to run a dungeon rather his pug likes it or not. Tanks are already stressed out enough by their jobs. If they don’t want to honor one of your requests, please stop demanding that they play the way you want them to. They are not obligated to help you do anything.

This attitude. I tanked a long time in WoW and let me say tanks usually have one of the easiest jobs. It only becomes hard when they're the defacto raid leader/caller/coach/babysitter because the job is generally that braindead the tank is usually given as many extra roles as possible since the healers and DPS generally have to concentrate.

It becomes hard when you're trying to have raid-wide vision, while watching timers, and rotating your own cooldowns. Beyond that the job doesn't get any more complex between pressing your personal CDs at the right time, maintaining threat, and moving out of a few cones.

Sometimes if you have to kite, manage some mechanic, or pick up a lot of mobs it can be pretty stressful, but typical dungeon face roll stuff? I dunno. We are going to have people doing sub 4 minute Brayflox myth runs once they get geared in the next patch, there's nothing hard about that content.