SMN aggo question.

[Bigcat9715]

So, lately i've been putting Miasma II into my rotation: BIO II->Bio->Miasma->fester/Bane->Shadow flare->Miasma II. But the problem is that i've been taking away aggo from the Tank. I was under the impression that its hard to take aggo away from the tank with SMN. Is it them or me?

[Valmar]

Quelling Strikes?

[RhazeCain]

Well, I can't speak to SMN point of view, but as a tank I can tell you that there should rarely if ever be agro problems.

It's all about context:
Is the tank far less geared than you?
Is the tank busy trying to agro 2 or more enemies at once?
Is the tank dealing with mechanics that force them to do less than max agro? (ex. moving around, at range instead of melee, cursed voice in t7, etc)

If nothing special is going on and you're still getting agro, then it's probably the tank that's bad.

For instance, as a Warrior I'll lead with Tomahawk, Unchained/Berserk, the high agro combo attacks with Brutal Swing thrown in. That locks agro on tank very easily. If however, Unchained/Berserk were on cooldown and Warrior tried to lead with Storm's Eye combo (higher dmg, less agro), then agro loss would be much more likely.


As PLD I would lead with Fight or Flight, Shield Lob, and RoH combo with Circle of Scorn and Spirits Within woven in. Again, very high agro right at the start. Harder to mess up agro on a PLD than WAR.

Bottom line for the SMN: watch context. If tank is doing other stuff, go easy. But in normal circumstances you should be able to throw absolutely everything at enemies right from the start. If it continues being a problem, your tank needs to improve or be replaced.

[Soleless]

Depends. When I'm tanking with a new group it usually takes a pull or two to figure out where the dps stands and what they prefer doing (single target or aoe). Tanks should be paying attention to that and adjusting their rotation accordingly. Playing with a smn and blm in the group is generally going to require a different approach compared to a drg and mnk team. A lot of tanks just seem unaware of how smn works and how much aoe threat they can pull, I've been accused a few times of "attacking the wrong" mob as smn, when all I was doing was laying down bane/miasma II.

Try and explain things, hope they listen and if not, quelling strikes can help make the difference.

[Judge_Xero]

It's you. Summoner damage/enmity is pretty crazy and with practice you can have your DoTs out very fast. Also once they are out ticking there's nothing you can do to stop them.
Quelling Strikes helps but sometimes it's not enough.

[Sen_Terrechant]

It's you. Summoner damage/enmity is pretty crazy and with practice you can have your DoTs out very fast. Also once they are out ticking there's nothing you can do to stop them.
Quelling Strikes helps but sometimes it's not enough.

SMN enmity is split between the SMN and the pet furthermore DoTs generate less hate due to their nature.

of every single DPS, SMN is the least likely to pull hate.

If a tank loses hate to a SMN, its a tank issue.

[Viridiana]

furthermore DoTs generate less hate due to their nature.

Err. . .no, as far as I'm aware 1 damage by a dot is the same as 1 damage by a normal ability. Unless you mean to say they're a slower hate build?

[AniCelestine]

Are you talking 'bout single target or aoe stuations? Or both? If on single target it definetly is on tank's side, unless he hasn't done anything else but pulled them and is currently positioning them, then it's your fault. But as for aoe situations, most tanks from DF/DR don't know how much aoe dmg smn's do I have had some tanks that never flashed more than once. Which means 3 ticks of all DoTs and I got aggro off 3/4 monsters.

Generaly: If tank isn't positioning monsters on trash pulls, problem is on tank's end. If problem is during positioning, then you are just starting to DPS too soon.

[Judge_Xero]

Definitely agree with Ani. Single target you shouldn't pull hate unless you are trying to.
A good AOE Summoner builds hate faster than BLM up until Flare/Double Flare which some tanks may not be used to.

That's why I say it's the Summoners fault and not the tanks. I don't think many tanks get to play with a good AOE Summoner.

I.E.
3 GCD = 110 Potency on 4 Mobs (3 second Ticks)
4 GCD = 135 Potency on 4 Mobs (3 second Ticks)
5 GCD = 145 Potency on 4 Mobs (3 second Ticks)
Convert to GCD = 121 Potency
Blizz II Spam = 171 Potency per GCD

So with ~510 INT (i90 Weapon) that's around 480 Damage per mob per GCD without Crits etc.

[Valmar]

Look at his character, he doesnt even have Quelling Strikes.