Why not THF job?

[Exstal]

SCH and SMN can answer your question, yes there could be enough skills to play the same class in a different way, while ninja looks more like a melee/mage hybrid Thief can be more of a melee oriented, with classic skills like sneak attack, I remember in 1.0 a skill that could exchange hate from one player to another, there's a lot of stuff they could add to make it feel different.

That can't answer the question。

SCH - healer
SMN - DPS

Unless you're saying;

NIN - DPS
THF - tank

[Alistaire]

That can't answer the question。

SCH - healer
SMN - DPS

Unless you're saying;

NIN - DPS
THF - tank

You're saying they CAN'T make 2 jobs different style DPS off the same class? ok...hell, they could give thief crossbows to equip and no different skills and it'd be a different job.

[Exstal]

You're saying they CAN'T make 2 jobs different style DPS off the same class? ok...hell, they could give thief crossbows to equip and no different skills and it'd be a different job.

Except you'd have to make all the animations for using crossbow on Thief, which is pointless. Why? If you're going to put all the effort into giving them new animations, why not just make them have a stand alone base class to work from? You're going to use melee skills (Rogue is melee) with a crossbow? I realize this is an example but in the future make it a little more reasonable (longswords, chakram, etc). I'm saying that without a huge variation in job skills, there's no way to differentiate two jobs from each other (5 isn't enough).

So look at it this way, when you remove all Paladin's skills they still play almost the same no? Even with Monk losing all their skills, it's pretty much the same idea right? So what happens you want to make 2 classes, who are at core the exact same, as the same role? Redundant jobs. That's what. Now if there was 7~10 (being conservative) then you could make an argument for Thief and Ninja both branching from Rogue. But at 1 job skill every 5 levels, gonna be L70~100 to get that in.

[Kuroyasha]

You pretty much answered yourself in the first sentence. Rogue effectively is a thief class by a different name. Are there still differences in specialization? Sure, but enough differences to merit a whole new class or job? Not really. Could you force enough differences to make it possible (like with your "epitome of thieves" or "Phantom Thief" examples)? Again, sure, it's possible, but what's really the point? Whether you call it thief, ninja, rogue, or flibbertygargen, the point is that they're putting all of the thief-ish mechanics that they want into this one class. There's still technically room for a similar class, but there's much more creative maneuverability in keeping different jobs distinct....l.

Lol fibbertygargen. I Just had a Peter Griffin/Family Guy moment, saying that word out loud and laughing at it. xD

[AniCelestine]

..I'm saying that without a huge variation in job skills, there's no way to differentiate two jobs from each other (5 isn't enough).

5 isn't enough? Owell. Imma go heal Turn 5 with my smn.

Thought of it this way? You have rogue, uses 2 daggers as wpns. What thieves would use? 2 daggers also. How would you change class between thief and rogue if they were 2 different classes? Unless SE decides to use 1 handed daggers/smallswords. But hey, wait. Gladiator/PLD currently uses daggers and smallswords and swords. So no daggers either. See the problem? Also, it's said that Nin uses "Mundras" which are kinda magic no? Well, I would think that those would be the Job skills and they stated those are going to be the main way of dealing dmg, in one way or another. So if Thf would get purely melee actions/steals/boosts what ever it'd for me atleast a completely different job. As are SCH and SMN even when they have only 5 skills (Job skills ) different.

[Exstal]

5 isn't enough? Owell. Imma go heal Turn 5 with my smn.

Thought of it this way? You have rogue, uses 2 daggers as wpns. What thieves would use? 2 daggers also. How would you change class between thief and rogue if they were 2 different classes? Unless SE decides to use 1 handed daggers/smallswords. But hey, wait. Gladiator/PLD currently uses daggers and smallswords and swords. So no daggers either. See the problem? Also, it's said that Nin uses "Mundras" which are kinda magic no? Well, I would think that those would be the Job skills and they stated those are going to be the main way of dealing dmg, in one way or another. So if Thf would get purely melee actions/steals/boosts what ever it'd for me atleast a completely different job. As are SCH and SMN even when they have only 5 skills (Job skills ) different.

I guess I forgot to explain why this doesn't work. So let's start with SMN vs SCH. Let's temporarily ignore that their roles are different and look at strictly DPS SCH vs SMN. How do they play?

Bio II => Misma => Bio => Shadow Flare => Ruin Spam

So what if SCH was in fact not a healer and another DPS called Necromancer? Then you'd have a job that plays basically the same as SMN with a different motif (being undead and what not).

So now let's come back to SCH vs SMN in reality. These jobs are different because they serve different functions. A healing SMN does not play like a SCH just because you have physick. That'd be akin to BLM playing like SCH because it has physick.

SCH - healer
SMN - DPS

Unless you're saying;

NIN - DPS
THF - tank

Unless Mudras are the entire rotation of Ninja, then I don't see a reason in having Rogue class at all. Your class is your foundation. You play a "specialized" class called a job. So at heart, minus those 5 skills, you are playing whatever class with a specific focus. I play a Arcanist with a specialisation in healing, or a Pugilist with a specialisation in punching things, but at the end of the day that's what I'm playing. An Arcanist. A Pugilist. So unless the devs pull some wildcard, it should follow this pattern.

[AniCelestine]

By that logic you wouldn't need different melee damage dealers, tanks, or healers, since that's what you can generalize their play style in the same way: tanks take damage, keep aggro and stay alive, melee DPS (the current version at least) do positional damage, and healers keep people alive.

Why didn't you add magic DPS also? Both BLM and SMN deals magic dmg?

But as I stated earlier it wouldn't work as a sole class. But as a Job it could, depending how exactly Nin will dps.

[AniCelestine]

Unless Mudras are the entire rotation of Ninja

Thats what I understood from the Live letters. And yeah, it would be completely useless to have rogue at all as a class, unless they have thief planned as a 2nd job to rogue. But until we completely know how rogue and ninja works, these discussions are nothing else but a battleground for raging people with no real reason as we don't have all needed facts to debate wether or not we should be demanding/wanting thief.

[Exstal]

Thats what I understood from the Live letters. And yeah, it would be completely useless to have rogue at all as a class, unless they have thief planned as a 2nd job to rogue. But until we completely know how rogue and ninja works, these discussions are nothing else but a battleground for raging people with no real reason as we don't have all needed facts to debate wether or not we should be demanding/wanting thief.

Yes, that's what 68 pages of this thread is.