Compulsory Gridanian Education

[Lucke]

Some things to consider:
Each town has it's own healers, Grid has CNJ, LL has ACN, and UD has the Alchemists.

I wonder how each city-state handles education. UD may have a private for-profit (obviously) education system. Only the rich can be educated. Though, I never see children in UD except for the urchins in the alleys. Another thing that kinda bugs me. When you start off in UD, you go right to your guild and get accepted in. Right outside the gates is a FATE about a woman who was declinedentry to every guild. How bad do you have to suck to be declined entry into a guild. We literally join a guild within 5 minutes of arriving to town.


Also, with regards to UD, there are people outside the gates looking for work. What's stopping them from joining the guilds? Again, we get off the wagon and in minutes become members of the guilds in UD. Why don't the refugees do the same thing? I know the Syndicate has the power to evict people, but they never evicted us, and we were a bunch of unknowns with unknown intentions.

[gornotck]

[...].

It should be noted that we're also members of a global paramilitary project that employs and encourages persons of, let us say, unlimited desire to assist. As players we are shown to be something of an unstoppable force. In Ul'dah specifically, players who start there directly act against the Syndicate's dark master, and there's nothing he can do about it.

Adventurers WILL join the guilds, because they need to be able to fulfill any request given to them for any reason or no reason at all. The refugees are prevented from 'finding work' because they're at the mercy of Lolorito and the Money is Power system of Ul'dah reborn.

[Enkidoh]

Actually, even towards the player the Guilds are shown to be somewhat insular and exclusive - after all you're only allowed to join one right at the start (the guild of whatever class you start the game as), and that's only after you first register at the Adventurer's Guild and are directed there by the proprietor. Presumably it's all a matter of red tape - average people may want to try and join a guild, but unless they have that permission from the Adventurer's Guild, they're out of luck (presumably this is also the cause of the situation of the antagonist in that FATE you mentioned - it was probably bureaucracy that caused her to be refused entry into the Guilds she applied to).

And even then, you're not allowed to join any other Guild until you've actually shown promise in your initial profession (as in, done the first few quests for the Guild), and are given permission by the Guildmaster to do so. It seems to me to be a very rigid way of education, but not too unlike real world history where trade Guilds were notoriously close minded and had stringent recruitment and training protocols.

[Catapult]

Adventurers don't get to live inside Ul'dah either, and it takes doing a pretty awesome favour for the city before we're even able to stay at the inn. Presumably until then, you've had to bivouac in the field with all the refugees.
For joining the guilds, if you can't at least kill some moles, hornets and rats, or spin some hemp etc, you won't be worth their time and will get turned away.

For Ul'dahn education, my bet is on the Milvaneth Sacrarium running an expensive and exclusive private education system.

[Kyan]

Adventurers don't get to live inside Ul'dah either, and it takes doing a pretty awesome favour for the city before we're even able to stay at the inn. Presumably until then, you've had to bivouac in the field with all the refugees.
For joining the guilds, if you can't at least kill some moles, hornets and rats, or spin some hemp etc, you won't be worth their time and will get turned away.

For Ul'dahn education, my bet is on the Milvaneth Sacrarium running an expensive and exclusive private education system.

After all, there are loads of books and literature in Eorzea! And judging by market wards, books seem to have some value (including history books, etc). And most people seem to be literate - ordinary citizens in Limsa reading signs, the pirates in Sastasha leaving clues on parchment, Gerolt reading books about weapon's history... Heck, the people we get challenge logs from even keep journals!

You can't tell me they're all just born with the innate ability to read - it has to be taught and learned somewhere! It may not be evidence of a school (homeschooling, for example), but it is certainly an important enough skill (if even average citizens display literacy) to warrant there would be several places of learning somewhere.

Whilst we do have a lot of lore, there is so much more room to flesh out our cities in a myriad of different ways, which gets me so excited thinking about the possibilities!

[Lucke]

stuff

The thing is though, I doubt the NPCs you find in the guilds are adventurers. Like, the goldsmiths are just goldsmiths. They aren't goldsmiths AND Alchemists AND Weavers. So the guilds accept non-adventurers. There's a quest in the weavers guild that has you recruit random citizens to their ranks.

And remember, the cities know nothing about us. For UD, we arrive via carriage with no background and are welcomed (in that we can freely join guilds) inside. I find it hard to believe that the refugees outside UD are too lazy to pick up a sword and be a Gladiator if it means eating that night. We have no history when we arrive in town. What makes us so different from the random people outside UD? They lost their homes and look for asylum in UD, sorta like us. Well we are immigrants just like them anyway.

This is way before we prove ourselves as professional badasses. Before we join a GC. Before we help the citizens with their quests. We are fresh "off the boat" people.

[Enkidoh]

Well, I think in the Ul'dahn case at least, it's more just a case of Ul'dahn wealth-based bigotry then. The player is immediately identified as an adventurer when they first set foot in Ul'dah, not as a refugee (probably due to the weapon on their hip easily identifying them as such and their clothes not being tattered rags). Also it just seems a lot of refugees just have given up hope of ever rising themselves above their miserable circumstances and so do not attempt to do so, resulting in the social problems that go along with that.

Incidentally, refugees wanting to settle in Gridania are even more strictly dealt with - they're made to stay in an outlying community for a few days while the Hearers consult the elementals about whether they should be allowed or not. Naturally, the result is often not what they like (which explains also the large amount of bandits and poachers in the Shroud - they're often refugees who have been refused settlement in Gridania and have resorted to less legal means to survive).

After all, there are loads of books and literature in Eorzea! And judging by market wards, books seem to have some value (including history books, etc). And most people seem to be literate - ordinary citizens in Limsa reading signs, the pirates in Sastasha leaving clues on parchment, Gerolt reading books about weapon's history... Heck, the people we get challenge logs from even keep journals!

You can't tell me they're all just born with the innate ability to read - it has to be taught and learned somewhere! It may not be evidence of a school (homeschooling, for example), but it is certainly an important enough skill (if even average citizens display literacy) to warrant there would be several places of learning somewhere.

Whilst we do have a lot of lore, there is so much more room to flesh out our cities in a myriad of different ways, which gets me so excited thinking about the possibilities!

Well, as a start, the description for the Midlander Hyur clan on the FF Wiki (that was the original description for the Midlanders on the old Lodestone) mentions that language is taught to them from a very early age, so yes there definitely has to be some kind of education going on:

Trained in letters from infancy, the Midlanders are generally more educated than many of the other races and clans.

Whether this means home schooling or a more formal educational system is anyone's guess though, but it's possible the Guilds do have some part to play in that (especially the crafting and gathering Guilds would have especially useful traits for those seeking more 'mundane' employment).

[Kyan]

Well, I think in the Ul'dahn case at least, it's more just a case of Ul'dahn wealth-based bigotry then. ... Also it just seems a lot of refugees just have given up hope of ever rising themselves above their miserable circumstances and so do not attempt to do so, resulting in the social problems that go along with that.

Also to support you Enkidoh, weren't the Ala Mhigan's refused aid by Ul'dahn law? Perhaps guilds did not want to accept refugees because of this? (That, and a lot of the guilds are owned by people on the syndicate).

But, it is not like all Ala Mhigan refugees have been denied access and aid, or have given in to their nationalism and pride. Whilst we see examples of the downtrodden outside the Ul'dah, in Pearl Lane or at Little Ala Mhigo, and the twisted and bitter Ala Mhigan bandits in Southern Thanalan (who rape, loot and pillage 'in the name of their king'), there are many examples of Ala Mhigan refugees who have been motivated enough to excel. For example, Raubahn, an Ala Mhigan who did become a gladiator, bought his way into the Syndicate through his winnings. There are also many Ala Mhigans in the miner's and gladiator's guilds, too. And, an exceptional case, we have Minfillia!

I just want to add - is it not said during Ul'dah's opening story in 2.0 that, of the refugees outside Ul'dah, these people are not just Ala Mhigan, but also people who are displaced because of the Calamity?

[ShackledDreams]

I just want to add - is it not said during Ul'dah's opening story in 2.0 that, of the refugees outside Ul'dah, these people are not just Ala Mhigan, but also people who are displaced because of the Calamity?

This is true. It's also worth mentioning that we are playing the game in the guise of the hero. Be that a Warrior of Light or Defender of Eorzea, we are forced onward to complete the campaign or scenario. If we remove the perception that every Ul'dah refuge is capable of being a player character, it become plausible that many are simply unable to succeed within the various guilds or even the adventurer's guild. Those without proper shelter, food or water are likely going to be less likely to take up a weapon and defend a city that won't even let them past their walls. Likewise, those that may succeed at killing hornets may prove to be inept at killing Efts or larger enemies and would likely give up adventuring. Without the mere means to defend one's self in the wilds, it seems unlikely that any refuge would succeed at a Disciple of Hand class either as it requires either the means to either gather materials yourself or have sufficient enough funds to purchase materials from the market board.

[Morningstar1337]

Well, I think in the Ul'dahn case at least, it's more just a case of Ul'dahn wealth-based bigotry then. The player is immediately identified as an adventurer when they first set foot in Ul'dah, not as a refugee (probably due to the weapon on their hip easily identifying them as such and their clothes not being tattered rags). Also it just seems a lot of refugees just have given up hope of ever rising themselves above their miserable circumstances and so do not attempt to do so, resulting in the social problems that go along with that.

Is there a term for this? Because I'm pretty sure "class warfare" is that term.