Younoob Tutorials.

[Darki]

Players that have tried the fight and wiped a bunch of times will always be better than first timers who've watched a Mr. Happy video.

I do wish SE would get his YouTube account shut down. His guides are awful and they breed bad players.

Let me offer a purely neutral perspective. I agree that the whole trail and error approach is allot of fun (for me at least). I would love to be able to do that for every duty/trail fight that comes out. But let's say that you are going into a fight that you know like the back of your hand and you are doing it purely for the rewards that comes with fighting it for the 1,000th time. Your party then winds up with a player that wants to trial and error it. Do you and the rest of the group...

A) Just go with it and eat the wipes so that other(s) have a chance to learn on their own?

B) Insist that that the new player or players be given instructions so they know whats coming since they joined the party and said "I am new to this"?

C) Tell the player(s) to "do their homework" and watch a Mr. Happy video or other video guide? (<---Some people call this cheating. I call it a simple manual to learning the fight sooner. Doesn't mean you have master the duty/trial.)


To put it simply, none of these answers are "wrong." But there is one very extremely important word that must be remembered regardless of which choice is picked:

CONSENSUS!!!



Without consensus, there will be arguing/rage quitting/bridges burned/devil worshiping. I always go into a duty/trial knowing that I am one vote among many and that like every party it will always fail if consensus isn't met.

[Rosy]

A different perspective on this. Last night (even though I have downed Twintania several times now) I joined a clearly labelled Practice Group. I enjoy T5 and enjoy helping others especially whilst there are a LOT of players who haven't cleared T5 yet. So in come a couple of players who after 3 wipes, declare that this group is useless and doesn't know anything....I point out that they joined a Practice group, but no, they continued to swear and generally be offensive and of course rage quit. Admittedly we had some people who were slow to pick up what we had explained, but this procedure went on for a couple of hours with new joiners rage quitting, putting the whole group back at square one as each new joiner wanted to do things differently to the way the newbies were becoming comfortable with (fireball groups etc.)

If you want a kill...don't join a practice group. Let people learn without the hassle of your elitist attitude.

To newbies joining a practice group, if you're asked "everybody understand, any questions don't be afraid to ask" please REPLY....all we got all evening was total SILENCE, it was like talking into a void .....then we proceed to learn that people didn't understand. Please learn to COMMUNICATE, I offer the choice of coming on our Teamspeak too, but many people won't, trust me it makes it a whole lot easier than having to type out stuff during the fight.

If you don't speak English, please try to start your own PF practice group and state that it will be French, Spanish, whatever, speaking... as communication and understanding the fight is paramount.

[Tharian]

I get pissed off when someone goes into a fight blind because they don't want to "waste" time watching youtube videos and then the first thing they expect is for everybody to spend the next 5-10 minutes and more time after each wipe explaining everything to them.

Does this sentiment hold true even if the group in question is advertised in Party Finder specifically as "A Learning Party"?

[LalaRu]

As long as I go PUGgin', I play how I like to. Who does not like meh playstype, can always leave party.

Then, you can watch video 24/7, but you don't learn dodging until you go in real fight and do it.

[Miitan]

As long as I go PUGgin', I play how I like to. Who does not like meh playstype, can always leave party.

Is kicking you OK too then? :3

[ruskie]

Well it's up to each individual player to figure out how to best learn the fights. For me I need to do them and understand why something needs to be done. For someone else watching a video that tells them to this and do that works. And yes if you join a training party be ready and willing to wipe, a lot, for a long time.

So getting a FC or LS or even just friends helping out the first few times can be helpful.

[necrosis]

<snip>

Once you join other people you are no longer on 'your time'. You are on 'everyone's time'. By not watching a video or at least looking over a typed up strat when joining other random people YOU are the one being inconsiderate. Yes you might be able to fudge your way through the fight and win but if you are the weakest link then you are at fault.

Yes, this was half a part of my point. If something can be explained in 3 minutes, compared to the 30 minutes of one video, why is it that no one takes the time to explain it in-game after two or three wipes occur.

Why is it everyone elses job to teach the lazy how to do content? This is not September 2013. There is tones of info online.

[melflomil]

Everyone loses, not sure why people bring this topic up. Everyone pays for this game. If they want a party of elitist there is nothing wrong with that (these groups fail a lot). If they want a learning party nothing wrong with this.As long as they don't break any of SE rules it doesn't matter.

[Gerolan]

As suggested start up a PF practise group if you really do just want to practise, I've done it myself a few times to learn the fight (cough I hate you moogle ex)
The problem with the "go watch the video" mentality is that usually the in depth ones are from a single point of view, like from a healer or a ranged DPS, which does nothing for those on melee, also some and I won't name names are over half hour long and boring as hell with a guy with the most annoying voice since peewee Herman which is an instant turn off
If I want to learn the fight though i do it via PF and not expect a carry in DF

[ColorOfSakura]

You need 5 minutes for a text guide, less if you are not a slow reader.
Just dont watch Mr.Happy guides, they are 30 minutes long, while u could explain it easilly in 3 minutes.

If you're going to watch video guides, stick with Mizzteq (MTQCapture on YouTube). Her videos are short (usually around 4-6 minutes, unless they're raid guides - which might be longer due to the large amount of mechanics you have to learn), they're extremely informative and break down the various mechanics, and honestly I've found them extremely helpful in preparing for harder endgame content.

To the OP:

I personally don't care if people watch guides or whatever, but if they're struggling with mechanics on a dungeon that's been around a while, I might suggest it to them simply to help them out. I don't mind explaining mechanics to people, but understand that not knowing how mechanic heavy boss fights work (and not wanting help on them) will frustrate the other players. If you want learning parties where you go in and figure out the mechanics on your own, I'd highly suggest getting a PF group together for it. It'll be less headaches for everyone.