[dev1022]Auto Attack and States

[Sawamura]

Let me teach you guys a magic way . Tab+ enter key or double click with left mouse will start attack

[Pale]

auto-attack has presented a catch 22 in regards to the use of incapacitations as an opener attack. since auto attack will trigger upon proximity when a weapon is unsheathed and a mob is targeted, you cannot sneak up behind an enemy without great difficulty.

in example: i frequently kill Doblyns, in which i use Trunksplitter II as my opening attack from the rear as an outer body incap. with patch 1.18 in affect, i now have to race my opening WS against the auto-attack, which will poke the mob, and cause them to turn around, thus making my fight more of a pain. so i am actually button mashing MORE as a result trying to navigate my action bar and smash my weapon skill before my strategy goes out the window. this is very, very frusterating.

having my weapon put away will allow for me to target the mob and be in close proximity, which will buy me enough time to queue up my WS, however TP degeneration is AWFUL in passive mode and the initiation of attack is always a race against time... auto-attack just added more junk to juggle to make killing with strategy even more complicated.

we need a way to toggle the initiation of auto-attack so it doesnt trigger upon proximity or targeting. also if any Devs read this a trait that slows the rate at which TP is lost would be AMAZING.

[Razor]

in example: i frequently kill Doblyns, in which i use Trunksplitter II as my opening attack from the rear as an outer body incap. with patch 1.18 in affect, i now have to race my opening WS against the auto-attack, which will poke the mob, and cause them to turn around, thus making my fight more of a pain. so i am actually button mashing MORE as a result trying to navigate my action bar and smash my weapon skill before my strategy goes out the window. this is very, very frusterating.

The trick to this is to not button mash, that is what is screwing you up. I do maneuvers like this all the time without frustration. Once you finish off your target, don't press anything at all except Tab (or D-pad) to target a new enemy. At this point you can stay in attack stance without being in auto attack. Position yourself behind the next target and initiate your weapon skill and auto-attack will automatically engage afterward.

I personally was very worried about how selecting targets was going to be because in the video the player just went into active mode and started wailing away. Being able to be in active mode and not attack is a very useful function in a multi-monster scenario (You don't want to start smacking whatever is closest to you). This current system allows you to switch to active mode, find a target, then engage it after you have confirmed that is your target. You can easily switch targets too (for keyboard Id assume its just Esc+Tab(x times)+Enter to select a new target). Like anything new it just takes an open mind and a little getting used to.

PS: I forsee this being like the target system though, in a few patches we'll have "Auto attack mode A B C D E and F" to chose from =P)

[Pale]

The trick to this is to not button mash, that is what is screwing you up. I do maneuvers like this all the time without frustration. Once you finish off your target, don't press anything at all except Tab (or D-pad) to target a new enemy. At this point you can stay in attack stance without being in auto attack. Position yourself behind the next target and initiate your weapon skill and auto-attack will automatically engage afterward.

thanks for the reply, however you have some misconceptions about the battle mechanics. once a target is dead, yes i can use the directional pad to find a new target, and yes i can stand next to him without attacking, that said, i cannot cycle through my action bar to select weaponskills. if i used a keyboard, i could select anything on my action bar, but with a controller the d-pad will still be in a mode which will look for new targets rather than let me have control over the action bar. so if i need to use raging strike or ferocity before my WS, i'm going to probably end up being the victim of auto-attack before i can buff myself for my opener.

there currently is no way to cycle through action bar skills with the d-pad while targeting a mob without having auto-attack initiated, and that is what needs to be fixed.

also there needs to be a way to fix the F8 key to a gamepad without 3rd party software, but thats another gripe for another time.

[Tempestmoon]

auto-attack has presented a catch 22 in regards to the use of incapacitations as an opener attack. since auto attack will trigger upon proximity when a weapon is unsheathed and a mob is targeted, you cannot sneak up behind an enemy without great difficulty.

in example: i frequently kill Doblyns, in which i use Trunksplitter II as my opening attack from the rear as an outer body incap. with patch 1.18 in affect, i now have to race my opening WS against the auto-attack, which will poke the mob, and cause them to turn around, thus making my fight more of a pain. so i am actually button mashing MORE as a result trying to navigate my action bar and smash my weapon skill before my strategy goes out the window. this is very, very frusterating.

having my weapon put away will allow for me to target the mob and be in close proximity, which will buy me enough time to queue up my WS, however TP degeneration is AWFUL in passive mode and the initiation of attack is always a race against time... auto-attack just added more junk to juggle to make killing with strategy even more complicated.

we need a way to toggle the initiation of auto-attack so it doesnt trigger upon proximity or targeting. also if any Devs read this a trait that slows the rate at which TP is lost would be AMAZING.

There is an easy way around that. There are different targeting modes, first you just select the enemy, you can walk right up to it in active mode and you won't attack, BUT you can use your weapon skill. If you hit enter again on the mob it locks on and you start auto-attack, and then if you want to keep facing it you press * to lock your camera. This works for me for this purpose, BUT is also pisses me off when I realize I am not attacking because I am not in locked mode.

[Pale]

There is an easy way around that. There are different targeting modes, first you just select the enemy, you can walk right up to it in active mode and you won't attack, BUT you can use your weapon skill.

let's stop here, the issue i am presenting does not concern the use of a keyboard; which, yes, is as simple as everyone keeps saying. if i had the ability to select any skill from the action bar without using the d-pad i would not have to lock-on to a target first, and i would have no issue with the auto-attack and could initiate a skill with no problems.

If you hit enter again on the mob it locks on and you start auto-attack

right, and locking onto a target* is a prerequisite to being able to select anything on the action bar with the d-pad. so there is no way of getting around auto-attack prior to using a skill. grab a controller and try it, if you can figure out a way and i'm just being grumpy, i'll more than gladly stop whining.

You can always run behind the mob while you're fighting it. I use pounce mid-battle while soloing all the time. All you do is run past the mob behind it right after you basic attack and smash the WS before the mob has enough time to turn around. On the devs part, they could at least set a longer timer before TP starts to degenerate if players really want to open up with WS.

oh i know, i'd just not like to have to worry about incaps mid battle. it's never as reliable once the target is engaged.

anyway, i hate to keep complaining about it, its just that i got too used to my method over the last 8 months, and now it feels clumsy and undependable. i do appreciate the comments. i have a feeling SE will fix this and i'll feel silly for making such a big stink over this for so long.

* i suppose 'locking' on in itself is a bit erroneous. you do not have to 'lockon' to use the d-pad to navigate the action bar but merely bring up the three yellow arrow icons. this stage of targeting presents the described problems, i just wasn't accurately using the terminology. since the d-pad cannot control both the cycling of targets and the action bar, you have to target a mob to be able to switch into a mode which allows access to control the action bar. the stage at which control toggles from normal cycling to targeting also is the same stage at which auto-attack is triggered, hence the inability to use skills while using a controller without auto-attack being in the way.

[Serio]

auto-attack has presented a catch 22 in regards to the use of incapacitations as an opener attack. since auto attack will trigger upon proximity when a weapon is unsheathed and a mob is targeted, you cannot sneak up behind an enemy without great difficulty.

in example: i frequently kill Doblyns, in which i use Trunksplitter II as my opening attack from the rear as an outer body incap. with patch 1.18 in affect, i now have to race my opening WS against the auto-attack, which will poke the mob, and cause them to turn around, thus making my fight more of a pain. so i am actually button mashing MORE as a result trying to navigate my action bar and smash my weapon skill before my strategy goes out the window. this is very, very frusterating.

having my weapon put away will allow for me to target the mob and be in close proximity, which will buy me enough time to queue up my WS, however TP degeneration is AWFUL in passive mode and the initiation of attack is always a race against time... auto-attack just added more junk to juggle to make killing with strategy even more complicated.

we need a way to toggle the initiation of auto-attack so it doesnt trigger upon proximity or targeting. also if any Devs read this a trait that slows the rate at which TP is lost would be AMAZING.

You can always run behind the mob while you're fighting it. I use pounce mid-battle while soloing all the time. All you do is run past the mob behind it right after you basic attack and smash the WS before the mob has enough time to turn around. On the devs part, they could at least set a longer timer before TP starts to degenerate if players really want to open up with WS.

[AlBhedMoog]

^^ ,

... well, what is about that one:

we may just keep Auto Attack as it is

BUT

decrease 'delay timer' of simple weapon slashes/actions (those without TP usage)
to about 2-3 ('real life') seconds only (no more than 3 seconds, depending on gears rank or class)?

What do you think on following case, please?

... or is extremely decrease of MP cost for heals the better way to go?

[Leelya]

I agree with Phenidate, I believe that micromanagement of the battle system sticks out a bit. Possibly because it doesn't carry the same fluidity as the newly implemented battle system. However, I think the battle system is headed in the right direction, and I believe this is somewhere on the list of upcoming changes.

[BlaiseLallaise]

In regards to the switching stances debate, I see no reason why they couldn't just initiate an auto-passive upon defeating the last mob in a group in the same way that we now have an auto-active upon initial attack. They don't even have to remove the ability to switch stances on the fly. I would be in favor of such an adjustment.