Glamour & Need

[KhalidTheGreat]

A lot of people do runs to get their glamour sets.
I farmed CT for 2 weeks straight just for glamour.

If lower ilvl players are more likely to get loot then people will equip the lowest possible gear just to get it, which makes the runs longer and harder. Or they'll just not do them at all.

[Tolmos]

It seems like the concept of courtesy on need/greed has changed with the generations. The older generation of MMO players (EQ/Vanilla WoW players) all look from the point of view of "The person running the specific role for a run gets first pick. Anyone else comes last". So healers got healer gear, DPS got DPS gear, etc.

The current generation of MMO players look at it differently. "Anyone who can use or wants an item deserves NEED, regardless of current role, spec or class". This isn't unique to Final Fantasy; Wildstar has the same thing going on. DPS players need constantly on healer/tank gear, tanks/healers need on DPS gear, and anyone who questions it gets destroyed on the forums by a vast majority of repliers. The number of people actually supporting the idea of "Role first" rolling seems to be dwindling.

[NorthernLadMSP]

It seems like the concept of courtesy on need/greed has changed with the generations.

It's the entitlement mentality. If you want your shot at a specific piece of loot, go as that job. It's as simple as that. If you want a healing chest piece, heal the dungeon. Problem solved.

I have absolutely no sympathy for these people that come in, as say a tank, expecting/demanding to get a bard piece (as in my previous example). Like one of the posters stated above, if someone comes in demanding that some specific piece of non-role loot is theirs, I'll do what I can to need/greed and prevent them.

However, I also have no problem with forming your own party of friends/FC/linkshell members and setting up your own loot rules.

[Skivvy]

DPS players need constantly on healer/tank gear, tanks/healers need on DPS gear, and anyone who questions it gets destroyed on the forums by a vast majority of repliers..

It's not possible for a DPS to "Need" on tank/healer gear, or any other combination stated above. If you go into a dungeon as a healer, you will only be able to "Need" on healing gear, everything else would have to be a "greed" lot. So if you're that bothered about winning a lot, go as the job you want the gear for so that you can "Need".

I will admit I've had people at the start of Duty Finder runs say "I've got Such-and-Such on lock for this run." I'm like... No. No you really don't. It almost makes me want to do what I can to make sure they don't get that item. :lol:

(Just to be clear, I'm not talking about polite requests or dealmaking, but people unilaterally declaring that they have something on lock. In Duty Finder. Nope, doesn't work that way.)

LOL, I've never seen that, but I would totally react the same way! :X

[Tolmos]

It's not possible for a DPS to "Need" on tank/healer gear, or any other combination stated above. If you go into a dungeon as a healer, you will only be able to "Need" on healing gear, everything else would have to be a "greed" lot. So if you're that bothered about winning a lot, go as the job you want the gear for so that you can "Need".

You missed a valuable part of my quote

This isn't unique to Final Fantasy; Wildstar has the same thing going on. DPS players need constantly on healer/tank gear, tanks/healers need on DPS gear, and anyone who questions it gets destroyed on the forums by a vast majority of repliers..

I was saying that is how it is in Wildstar, which is a similar conundrum to what is happening here over glamour rolling.

[Skivvy]

You missed a valuable part of my quote



I was saying that is how it is in Wildstar, which is a similar conundrum to what is happening here over glamour rolling.

Sorry for butchering the quote, but even still, it's not entirely the same as in XIV as you cannot "Need" outside of your role. The issue we see with XIV is that people feel their use of a certain item is more important than someone else's.

I've never played Wildstar, so can't comment on the lotting rules, but if it's a gigantic free for all....then lol.

[Tolmos]

Sorry for butchering the quote, but even still, it's not entirely the same as in XIV as you cannot "Need" outside of your role. The issue we see with XIV is that people feel their use of a certain item is more important than someone else's.

I've never played Wildstar, so can't comment on the lotting rules, but if it's a gigantic free for all....then lol.

Np, I skim posts sometimes too. lol.

And yea, Wildstar's need/greed is a lot less refined than here. It can get... hairy sometimes.

[Bluevann]

There's less people out there Needing for glamour than there are Needing to turn-in for Grand Company points. Those are my real plague.

[Niwashi]

Could be solved by SE handing out all those gear as lvl 1 glamour alternatives.

By that logic, it could be solved by SE handing out equipment with the highest possible endgame stats at level 1. If we're given all the cosmetics and all the stats at the outset, there'd be no need for anyone to ever lot on any dungeon loot. Of course, there wouldn't be much of a game left at that point, either. The fact is that people run content to get stuff they want. If they're given everything they want upfront, there's no reason left to run the content. That's equally true of both stat bonuses and cosmetics.

So it comes more down to: "Should I be nice and let someone who gets use out of it try their luck or should I should be that guy and take it even though I have zero use for it?"

They may well have an extremely important use for it. Even after lots of posters have pointed that out, how can you still talk about everyone but yourself as having "zero use"?
If someone wants it for its appearance, they'll be using the item directly themselves.
If someone wants it for better stats, they'll be using the item directly themselves.
If someone wants it to equip their retainer, they'll be using the item directly themselves.
Now, if somebody just wants to trade it in for gil or seals, that's a different matter. They're not using it, they're trading it in, and that's what "Greed" is for. (The biggest distinction here is that the particular item is irrelevant. You could get the same gil or seals from anything.)

Your problem, and the OP's, is that you're trying to equate the most important use in the game as equivalent to the least important, while singling out the second-most important use (improved stats) as being the only one you'll count. That's total nonsense.

It doesn't really matter either way considering that it's not like you can only run the instance once ever. If what you want doesn't drop the first time, or it does but you lose the roll, nothing is stopping you from running it again until you do get what you want.

Well, currently nothing is stopping you. If the OP got his way, then once you've run the dungeon a few times and either it didn't drop or you lost the roll, you'd lose the right to roll on it ever again. So what you don't get at first, you wouldn't ever get. And that's where the real problem lies with the suggestion - with the fact that it would effectively prohibit farming for an item until you can get it.

[Buff_Archer]

A lot of the nice gear I had waiting for me at my retainer for when I leveled up classes besides my first one, I got because of level synced players in that class who passed instead of rolling Need just to scrap the gear immediately for seals. So to those people I'd like to say 'Thanks!'. For anyone who says 'If you want the gear you should run a dungeon in that class' I invite you to put your money where your mouth is and take everything at your retainer for a class you haven't leveled that high yet, turn it in for seals now, and earn it again as you're leveling up that class. That's not to say people have no right to take gear for their class that's below their level, just that it's a certain type of player that runs through a dungeon snapping up green gear left and right they plan to scrap immediately without seeing if there's anyone who actually wants to use it for something other than GC seals.