Tank disrespect.

[silvach]

Quite important stuff - scroll up!

I don't want to justify a WHM who spams Cure II - this is obviously a mistake. However, I got few questions for you - did you chain the blind on the pulls (12,6,3 seconds). Did you stun 2-3 mobs for 6 seconds of not getting any damage (it's quite simple). Did you Stone Skinned yourself when enmity was maintained on level high enough to not to lose it?

As PLD you get 3 main things to reduce the incomming damage from the pulls. One is chain blind the pulls (it's 21 seconds of blind). Then you just stun 2-3 times on different creeps (to get some time for healer to keep his guts) and finally when your aggro is solid you can cast Stone Skin few times just to reduce the need of being healed. You can also run through the caster type of trahs mobs when they cast their spells, that will make them cancel the cast.

It's not criticism, just few questions and few good points.

You were a Warrior. My bad.

[saeedaisspecial]

Both War and Pal are great at holding aggro while Warrior does have an edge over Pal for AOE aggro tanking thanks to TP cost-free Steel Cyclone. However, if not being handled properly, War will run out of TP much quicker compared to Paladin. Though, in the hand of a skilled player, though both can show their full potential.

I have a story I would like to have everyone comments. Yesterday, I ran a duty roulette and ended up in Stone Vigil HM with the party setup as I, Warrior Ilv84 with Dual Hakken as weapon, full i90 armour pieces with Amber accessory for SB purpose, with the HP of 7840, 2 MNK ilv95+ as DPS and 1 WHM ILv 95+ as well. I did not do the SR, at most I only tanked 2 waves at a time (4-5 mobs at the same time). Our DPS did great in their role. However, I had been told off that I did not give him/her enough time to regain MP and that I was squishy, so she/he had to heal me much more than usual, given I never lost aggro once myself and pop all CD as soon as my instinct told me I should. The WHM used Cure 2 to heal me the whole run. And before each pull, I made sure she/he had at least 2k MP to heal me because I also had a WHM, also heal others and I could estimated how much mana you would need at this ilv gear, this Duns to heal through the pull. I told him, you should never run out of mana in the first place given how well perform the others were at doing their jobs. And the reason he told me that I was squishy because of his main was a Paladin..So was I a bad tank or the healer just.... bad at his/her role in terms of mana management????

Think I found the problem.
As someone else said, you're SBing in inferior gear in an expert dungeon and overpulling while doing so.

[LionKing]

Hmmm...Wait did I over pull where only there are 4-5 mobs on me at max? Full ilv90 Armor slots plus Dual Hakken, only my accessory slot was for SB, if you are saying that this is inferior, so I suppose the ilv that recommended for the Duns by SE was WAY WAY WAY low... I don't think SE just choose a random number to put up as ILV minimum requirement for the Duns...

@silvach: On paper, yes that sounds about right. However, when apply to a practical run, there are a lot of problems that are presented strictly speaking as Paladin:

1/ The only tool available for Paladin for AOE aggro holding is Flash. And yes, the durations are just like you listed each time you re-apply. However, if you actually did wait for the full duration of Blind to go off before you re-apply, you will have a very hard time to hold aggro against any decent DPS that does AOE dams, let alone BLM. You also risk of losing the aggro to the healer as well in the process. Therefore, to really maintain a strong and firm aggro on a bunch of mobs, Paladin has no choice but to spam flash continuously while either doing the Halone Combo on mobs or the Riot Combo to maintain the MP for more Flash. As a result, 12+6+3 sec for full duration blinding is not applicable.

2/ I normally don't stun the mobs for any AOE pull because it is not effective. First, it really kills your TP if your DPS do a bad job at DPSing, second, you risk of losing aggro on mobs because you could use that 2.5 sec to do Flash or doing the combo. Furthermore, Shield Bash does break your combo as well.

3/Stoneskin is my last resort when it comes to mitigate the damages. I usually go through the list of all my defensive CD before actually stop and casting Stoneskin but normally, I don't have to do that if it is just a Duns run because mobs usually are dead before I run out of all my defensive CD.

That is how I tanked as Paladin.

[Ashkendor]

Hmmm...Wait did I over pull where only there are 4-5 mobs on me at max? Full ilv90 Armor slots plus Dual Hakken, only my accessory slot was for SB, if you are saying that this is inferior, so I suppose the ilv that recommended for the Duns by SE was WAY WAY WAY low... I don't think SE just choose a random number to put up as ILV minimum requirement for the Duns...

To be fair, the item level requirement for those dungeons is 70. At 84 you aren't so far above it that you can start pulling multiple spawns without making things more difficult for the rest of the party, especially your healer. You'd probably be able to do it if you weren't wearing level 49 accessories, though.

Spiritbonding those in open world is pretty easy, for what it's worth.

[Killabye]

theres times when youre tanking and your solo attacking each mob, switching every attack. why are we bad tanks if we lose aggro but theyre not bad dps if they take it? ive been on a three mob and had all dps solo targeting their own target. fine, let em kill you lol

[Llyren]

theres times when youre tanking and your solo attacking each mob, switching every attack. why are we bad tanks if we lose aggro but theyre not bad dps if they take it? ive been on a three mob and had all dps solo targeting their own target. fine, let em kill you lol

We are only bad Tanks if Healer takes aggro and dies. If DPS dies it is their own fault.

[Maero]

We are only bad Tanks if Healer takes aggro and dies. If DPS dies it is their own fault.

That would be wrong, your a bad tank if you do large pulls, dps like some of us black mages use Quelling before attacking and you cannot hold agro and in turn dps dies as they get the agro.
That would be signs of a bad tank. As blm it is expecting to aoe so we hit every enemy. With 10 or more mobs it's not like your marking targets and dps will hit enemies one at a time.
Comments like that i can see why such a thread would be made really. But those of you who are great tanks, your awesome

[Llyren]

That would be wrong, your a bad tank if you do large pulls, dps like some of us black mages use Quelling before attacking and you cannot hold agro and in turn dps dies as they get the agro.
That would be signs of a bad tank. As blm it is expecting to aoe so we hit every enemy. With 10 or more mobs it's not like your marking targets and dps will hit enemies one at a time.
Comments like that i can see why such a thread would be made really. But those of you who are great tanks, your awesome

Every time a DPS dies an Angel gets its wings. =D

As a DPS you are expected to produce maximum dps, without taking aggro, to as many mobs as possible. This may mean for some Tanks, you have to limit your output. This does not mean that the Tank is bad, though they may be bad. The Tank is bad when the Healer is dying from Aggro anywhere near the Tank.

The DPS is bad when they take aggro, or the healer runs out of mana, or it rains, or anyone else in the party is in a bad mood, and on every day without a Z in it.

The Healer is never bad, they just had to go do something real quick

[stoxastic]

Tanks shouldn't be losing aggro ever on trash mobs unless they are significantly undergeared. If DPS is pulling mobs from you and they don't overgear you, you need to keep an eye on the enmity bars are keep the hate accordingly.