Tank disrespect.

[JonBigwood]

as I said all I got for an answer was that there was nothign I could do until I get shield oath....and this has been told to me repeatedly...by different groups in diffent dungeons over the various levels.


...my point being that all those that call others *bad* should be more moderate in how they see others since they dont know what is happening truely with the one they see as bad..

Hi, I agree that it's not accurate saying somebody is bad, it would have to be "he is learning yet" or "he has a lot to improve" or "he needs more practice in easier places".

I found this guide in this forum very helpful

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...mpendium-2.0.1

Maybe instead of entering a dungeon on the entry level, level your character up until you are on the top level of the range. Do all your class and job quests available before and obtain all abilities available for the level. Get the best weapon available for your level (if it is crafted, High Quality if possible.) Also the gear, but weapon is more important for enmity.

If everything goes fine as WAR and there are huge problems as PLD, look at the guide. Savage blade combo and flash are the ways to get enmity until you have Rage of Halone, then flash and Rage of Halone combo. Remember always it has to be the combo (fast blade followed by savage blade (it gets the yellow surrounding)), not just savage blade. Riot Blade combo is not. It is for recovering mp or killing the last mob alive (also combo, not by itself.) Best to get PLD and level 40 before Cutter's Cry, that place may be difficult with no Shield Oath, and more if you have problems in easier places.

[Nabian]

To quote a few famous movies:

There are no points for second place...

If your not first; your last.

As a culture we have the problem with celebrating mediocrity and I think its crap. I enjoy helping people, and encourage everyone to help out their fellow players. What I don't understand is why everyone feels the desire to "protect everyone's feelings." Using terms like "he is still learning" or he "needs to improve" will give players a false sense of worth. We see the same problem in the school system today where the bar is constantly being lowered. We need to raise the bar not lower it.

Saying he "still needs to learn" doesn't change the fact that he is still currently a bad player. It is his\her job to seek advice to improve and make himself a better player. There is nothing wrong with being a bad player and in fact, most people who are new to a dungeon or a game in general (unless your a freak of nature like the top 1% of players) are bad at some point. We all start as bad players and some of us evolve into better players through hard work and preparation.

[Aloreal]

To quote a few famous movies:

There are no points for second place...

If your not first; your last.

As a culture we have the problem with celebrating mediocrity and I think its crap. I enjoy helping people, and encourage everyone to help out their fellow players. What I don't understand is why everyone feels the desire to "protect everyone's feelings." Using terms like "he is still learning" or he "needs to improve" will give players a false sense of worth. We see the same problem in the school system today where the bar is constantly being lowered. We need to raise the bar not lower it.

Saying he "still needs to learn" doesn't change the fact that he is still currently a bad player. It is his\her job to seek advice to improve and make himself a better player. There is nothing wrong with being a bad player and in fact, most people who are new to a dungeon or a game in general (unless your a freak of nature like the top 1% of players) are bad at some point. We all start as bad players and some of us evolve into better players through hard work and preparation.

As someone who is years out of schooling and in the active workforce i can understand where you are coming from. Second means nothing in the world. if you aren't first then someone is taking advantage of you, you are working for someones paycheck and you are a cog in the machine. True all that.
Raising the bar towards learning is the best thing that would ever happen, if political and racial tensions where ever solved and we lived in a utopia where everyone was thinking of their fellow humans and just not be a selfish dolt (there have always been cases of selfishness but by todays standards it is promoted where as some years ago if you where not part of the collective/community and didn't give in it could have dire consequences in your life thereafter)

I do understand the points. i know what you mean. i am a supporter of teaching by experience and leading, not bossing.

But you have to understand something very basic.

You do not know what ages, backgrounds or any other variables of the people you are playing with, especially in a pug.
If you found someone worthy who knows how the world rotates good. but chances are you are not. you can find respectable teen adults i agree, but you have to admit that not all are going to share the same experiences as me and you and know what it means to strive under pressure.

On the other hand, there have always been people who found their comfort zone and stuck to it, whether online or in irl. If you see the trends in psychology, whereas 50-60 years ago rich meant having millions, now a large amount of people would just answer, not to worry about my next paycheck. Security over the risk of enterprising.

Do understand as this is a game our personal ideals cannot come in to the way of fun. casuals are getting more and more prominent at entering the internet. where some years ago we would be the niche, we are now the normal. where now a hardcore player is a mediocre by old school standards.

Shifting trends, new age groups entering the market and the economic world is shifting stuff around.

So. just to finish it off. its good to have standards. its good to have leverages.

Its not good to assume and just bash cause it makes you the same as the 'selfish' people you are bashing at.

Teach by example and do remember that this is a medium of enjoyment.


PS. while bashing and elitism is the norm, it takes big Kohonas to be polite in the internet.

[Yuki_Tokita]

Kool story bro

[JonBigwood]

Saying he "still needs to learn" doesn't change the fact that he is still currently a bad player. It is his\her job to seek advice to improve and make himself a better player. There is nothing wrong with being a bad player and in fact, most people who are new to a dungeon or a game in general (unless your a freak of nature like the top 1% of players) are bad at some point. We all start as bad players and some of us evolve into better players through hard work and preparation.

This is exactly what I meant, it's not he is a bad player by essence and will always be bad.

[MeiUshu]

@Jon,

I did all you say, backwards upwards and downwards...tried all possible combinations, I flash I use Rage of Halone as I just received it and still my goodness is just a NIGHTMARE.

People tags you with the word *bad* as in bad, useless, dumb, and have no clues what you are going trough, and when you ask them, and tell them I am all ears up tell me what is wrong or you see wrong and I can then change it because it is ALSO frustrating for me (many people forget about it), a that point there isnt anybody anymore, they all fall into a deafening mutism, but meanwhile the person whoever it is, in this case me, have been called all names in the planet, and DPS start doing whatever since they consider you useless, making your efforts and attempts even more frustrating.

Me think people should look into their own behaviour before insulting otehrs because *Bad* is insulting, it entered the regular way of speaking, but it isnt and like many words like that one should be left for cases that truely deserve that word, and not knowing or learning do not deserve it.

Mei

[Synestr]

Interesting, I think just follow the basics all described here. Lob, flash, RoH combo's..do you have Spirits within yet? Are you spreading your combos around to all mobs? Are you flashing more than once on the pull, in between combos?

Using Shield oath? It only needs to be turned on once. I only say that as I had a PLD in FC during a run, turning it on and off thinking that it was a buff ability...

Also, speak up if the DPS is being dumb. You know like not attacking your target. If they decide that the third mob needs to die first so be it. Either switch to it and stun it, then RoH combo to get hate on it, or just let them handle their business and tell to please follow your lead so there are NO aggro issues.

Hope it helps

Syn

[JonBigwood]

@Jon,

I did all you say, backwards upwards and downwards...tried all possible combinations, I flash I use Rage of Halone as I just received it and still my goodness is just a NIGHTMARE.

If you have just received Rage of Halone it means you are level 26. If you still don't feel at ease about how things go as PLD, don't go to Toto-Rak yet.

I would repeat the easier dungeons for practice. It's boring maybe but you'll get more and more confident. The more you know a place, you know what is going to happen and what to do, you will feel more confident, less stressed and things will go better.

Most people are nice, if you meet somebody who insults you, don't let that affect you, or try not to.

Read the guides and try to apply all you can. Fight or flight increases 30% the damage (therefore enmity too) so use it always at the start, you can macro it to fast blade. Shield lob a mob then flash several times then the Savage Blade combo on him, and rotate the combo from one mob to the other. Mark targets or at least the 1 so that DPS know what is your first target (you can macro the mark 1 to shield lob and you'll mark and shield lob the 1st mob with one click.) When there is only one mob left, you can recover mp with the Riot Blade combo. In the early dungeons you only can do these 2 combos, flash and shield lob. Use rampart when there are several mobs and repeat when available and convalescence if you feel you need it. Use foresight and bloodbath from Marauder too. Use fight or flight as soon as available again.

Edit: I put Fight or flight in bold since only one message of Nabian mentioned it previously and 30% is a lot increase. It lasts 30 seconds so it will affect your first several attacks. Recast 90 seconds so 1/3 of the time you can have 30% extra physical damage (=extra enmity generated.)

If there are different mobs and one of them is more dangerous, does nasty attacks, etc., start killing that one.

Look always at the enemy list and check all are in red. You can place the enemy list in a visible and near hand place so that you can mouse click the enemies in the list if you want to. When you flash at the beginning they should get all red, if you see several red icons flashing and getting orange, flash to recover enmity in all of them, if it's only one, attack that one. Flash will only affect enemies that can see you.

In easy dungeons you have the chance of meeting players who are not very experienced so they might attack the wrong mob and get aggro that you'll have to recover, they might attract attention of new groups of mobs and create a too big group, etc.

Once you get rage of halone, use the rage of halone combo (fast blade, savage blade, rage of halone) instead of the savage blade, and rotate among mobs. With more than 3 mobs you'll need to flash much more since you won't have time enough to rotate before losing hate. With many mobs, flash your whole mp then riot blade combo once to recover mp then flash and repeat.

I hope this helps.

[Souljacker]

I think it's a MUCH larger curve for those of us who played functional tanks in other games.

1. Provoke should be a low level skill for any tank class. It just should be one of the very first things that as a tank, you learn how to integrate into your routine. None of this level a job up to 22 and cross slot it nonsense.

2. Flash could use a tweak. Maybe not a huge one, but in terms of its effectiveness versus Overpower, it's weaker. Either that or Gladiator should be able to cross-slot Overpower. Why can warrior use Flash, but Gladiator can't use warrior's AoE?

3. Threat generation on other classes is slightly skewed. If someone tops you on the threat table, it can be very hard to peel the monster back off. There is this idea that everyone needs to watch their threat and I agree that other players can modify their style a little, but with things like level sync putting experienced, powerfully geared players in queue with brand new players, no one is being helped by artificially inflating the difficulty level of tanking.

Part of it is players, sure, but for those of us who have played as tanks in other games - SE hasn't exactly set folks up for success with this design.

[Kerberon]

I think it's a MUCH larger curve for those of us who played functional tanks in other games.

1. Provoke should be a low level skill for any tank class. It just should be one of the very first things that as a tank, you learn how to integrate into your routine. None of this level a job up to 22 and cross slot it nonsense.

2. Flash could use a tweak. Maybe not a huge one, but in terms of its effectiveness versus Overpower, it's weaker. Either that or Gladiator should be able to cross-slot Overpower. Why can warrior use Flash, but Gladiator can't use warrior's AoE?

3. Threat generation on other classes is slightly skewed. If someone tops you on the threat table, it can be very hard to peel the monster back off. There is this idea that everyone needs to watch their threat and I agree that other players can modify their style a little, but with things like level sync putting experienced, powerfully geared players in queue with brand new players, no one is being helped by artificially inflating the difficulty level of tanking.

Part of it is players, sure, but for those of us who have played as tanks in other games - SE hasn't exactly set folks up for success with this design.

I don't know, they didn't set out to make it easy, but it is very possible to be successful. Having things be a little more difficult should be embraced in more areas of game design.